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Author Topic:   WooHoo! More idiots running the gub'ment.
hooah212002
Member (Idle past 135 days)
Posts: 3183
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 196 of 245 (549845)
03-11-2010 3:25 AM
Reply to: Message 195 by Huntard
03-11-2010 3:06 AM


Re: Athiestic Values
Satans animals, Huntard, satans animals.


"Some people think God is an outsized, light-skinned male with a long white beard, sitting on a throne somewhere up there in the sky, busily tallying the fall of every sparrow. Others—for example Baruch Spinoza and Albert Einstein—considered God to be essentially the sum total of the physical laws which describe the universe. I do not know of any compelling evidence for anthropomorphic patriarchs controlling human destiny from some hidden celestial vantage point, but it would be madness to deny the existence of physical laws."-Carl Sagan

"On a personal note I think he's the greatest wrestler ever. He's better than Lou Thesz, Gorgeous George -- you name it."-The Hulkster on Nature Boy Ric Flair


This message is a reply to:
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Rahvin
Member
Posts: 3964
Joined: 07-01-2005


Message 197 of 245 (549847)
03-11-2010 3:29 AM
Reply to: Message 196 by hooah212002
03-11-2010 3:25 AM


Re: Athiestic Values
"Its not natural" is just another way of saying "it makes me feel icky, personally."

After all, one can hardly reject the unnatural whilst using a computer and the internet.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 196 by hooah212002, posted 03-11-2010 3:25 AM hooah212002 has acknowledged this reply

  
DevilsAdvocate
Member (Idle past 1415 days)
Posts: 1548
Joined: 06-05-2008


Message 198 of 245 (549856)
03-11-2010 5:51 AM
Reply to: Message 191 by Buzsaw
03-11-2010 12:05 AM


Re: The Pursuit of Happiness, a basic human right irregardless of sexual orientation
Buzz writes:

Whether you go with evolution or ID, the sex organs were no more designed for gay sex than your car was designed for an all positive battery or a male pipe fitting was designed to connect to another male fitting.

Yes, but no one is protesting male pipe fittings connecting to other male fittings. No one is tying cars to fence posts after beating the crap out of them and leaving them to die. No one is murdering male pipe fittings and cars for wanting to be together.

We are talking about HUMAN BEINGS here Buzz not asanine unrelated metaphors.

Just because you don't think they belong together or think it is not natural (whatever that means- I think you are not natural ) does not mean they are not entitled to basic human rights. Does it really matter what two human beings do in the privacy of there home as concenting adults? Should we go into your home and start video taping you and your wife so that you don't commit sodomy acts? REALLY?!?

And if gay people want to get married, hitched, betrothed, tie the knot, yoked, whatever? Who cares? Does it affect anyone else's freedoms? NO! So what difference is it of yours? Is it impeding any of your freedoms? Absolutely not! Get over it and stop impeding the rights of others.

Or do you not believe that Thomas Jefferson was correct in his advocating certain inalienable (unable to take away) human rights such as Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness? Do you not think the right of two people whether they be straight or gay to get married is part of the "pursuit of Happiness"?

Edited by DevilsAdvocate, : No reason given.

Edited by DevilsAdvocate, : No reason given.


“One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We're no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It is simply too painful to acknowledge -- even to ourselves -- that we've been so credulous.” - Carl Sagan, The Fine Art of Baloney Detection

"You can't convince a believer of anything; for their belief is not based on evidence, it's based on a deep seated need to believe." - Carl Sagan

"It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring." - Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World


This message is a reply to:
 Message 191 by Buzsaw, posted 03-11-2010 12:05 AM Buzsaw has not yet responded

  
Taz
Member (Idle past 1605 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 199 of 245 (550018)
03-12-2010 12:48 AM
Reply to: Message 191 by Buzsaw
03-11-2010 12:05 AM


Re: Athiestic Values
Buzsaw writes:

Taz, you're sure caught up into this pro gay campaign. You know, there's a reason gays stayed in the proverbial closet until the 1960s or so. It's because it's not natural and most cultures considered it to be as deviant as adultery, fornication and prostitution. Most cultures considered it to degrade the culture and an embarrasment out of the closet.
I treat gays the same as everyone else, but I'm just telling you the facts. Don't get all bent outa shape when some people regard gays as human cultures have throughout history.

Whether you go with evolution or ID, the sex organs were no more designed for gay sex than your car was designed for an all positive battery or a male pipe fitting was designed to connect to another male fitting.

So far as the concern for the environment, some of us who are just as concerned as the whakos, use better judgement as to where to draw the line. If you want to tow the environmentalist line, sell your car and walk or ride a horse. Don't buy a bike. There's too much stuff involved in the making of it to be environmentally kosher. Wear all cotton, don't heat your house, stay off the asphalt when you walk. It takes a lot of oil, you know and oil doesn't grow on trees. If you really want to tow the environmentalist line, tow it and stop being a preachy hypocrite.


Your post is a perfect demonstration of your lack of what I would consider real morality. When I presented my argument that christians use other means beside violence to oppress, I actually used real modern day recent examples of this. When you tried to counter with arguments against environmentalists, all you could come up with were ridiculous caricatured made-up environmentalist arguments. This is dishonesty. It even violates one of your damn 10 commandments.

It just boggles my mind how someone like you could proclaim to be a real christian, hold the moral high ground, and lie so casually.

Edited by Taz, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
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Percy
Member
Posts: 18971
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 3.4


Message 200 of 245 (550084)
03-12-2010 4:44 PM


Texas Rewrites History
In today's New York Times:

Texas Approves Curriculum Revised by Conservatives

Excerpt:

New York Times writes:

After three days of turbulent meetings, the Texas Board of Education on Friday voted to approve a social studies curriculum that will put a conservative stamp on history and economics textbooks, stressing the superiority of American capitalism, questioning the Founding Father’s commitment to a purely secular government and presenting Republican political philosophies in a more positive light.

--Percy


Replies to this message:
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 Message 208 by hooah212002, posted 03-12-2010 7:38 PM Percy has acknowledged this reply
 Message 210 by subbie, posted 03-12-2010 8:45 PM Percy has acknowledged this reply
 Message 224 by Apothecus, posted 03-16-2010 9:41 PM Percy has acknowledged this reply
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Meldinoor
Member (Idle past 3122 days)
Posts: 400
From: Colorado, USA
Joined: 02-16-2009


Message 201 of 245 (550092)
03-12-2010 5:22 PM
Reply to: Message 168 by DevilsAdvocate
03-10-2010 6:09 AM


Re: Animal Allegories
Hi DA,

DevilsAdvocate writes:

The problem is, that all these "spiritual experiences" are:

a. completely subjective
b. not supported by emperical evidence.
c. easily induced by a plethera of psychosomatic and external triggers
d. the evolution of which can be traced back through human history and biological evolution
e. are present in just about all cultures on Earth, showing that these "experiences" are part and parcel to the human condition
f. rudimentary evidence of spirituality can be found in other species i.e. the wild chimpanzee community has links to animism

And I agree with you. Just like I never claimed that these were verifiable objective experiences.

The only point I was trying to make by invoking Aesop was that differing opinions of what a god is, is in itself not evidence that gods do not exist. (And I was bored and I like using silly metaphors).

Then I responded to the claim that the allegory should be modified by removing the elephant altogether. Which IMHO is stupid because the uncertainty and subjectivity part of the problem is already exemplified by the blindness of the "elephant touchers". Religious experiences are either of "gods" or of something else entirely, but considering the pervasiveness of religiosity in human culture and core similarities amongst beliefs, one might humbly suggest that religions exist for more or less the same reasons.

These reasons could once again be gods, or they could be psychosomatic, but nevertheless they are represented by the elephant. Beliefs in the "elephant" may differ because of varying perspectives, ideas and, if indeed the elephant is "supernatural", because of imperfect knowledge of what the elephant is.

DevilsAdvocate writes:

The point is that you can't use this subjective 'evidence' to prove anything without validating it and thus the existence of such 'evidence' is a moot point. What would be the standard to allow this 'evidence' to be presented? Why not evidence of UFO encounters, big foot, ghosts, or any other paranormal experiences?

I hope I have made it clear now that I'm not trying to "prove" anything. My purpose was merely to point out what I perceived as a weakness in subbie's argument.

Respectfully,

-Meldinoor


This message is a reply to:
 Message 168 by DevilsAdvocate, posted 03-10-2010 6:09 AM DevilsAdvocate has not yet responded

  
Meldinoor
Member (Idle past 3122 days)
Posts: 400
From: Colorado, USA
Joined: 02-16-2009


Message 202 of 245 (550093)
03-12-2010 5:30 PM
Reply to: Message 173 by subbie
03-10-2010 9:36 AM


Re: Animal Allegories
Hi subbie,

I admire your poetically verbose imagination. You might just be qualified to write religion. Nevertheless, I see more similarities between different religions than I see differences. Sure, the details may vary. But you'll notice that the blind men in Aesop's story have contradicting opinions of what an elephant is too.

One thinks the elephant is a long snake like thing, another thinks it's a tree trunk, another thinks an elephant is flat like a pancake. Pretty contradicting, and mutually inconsistent, unless they consider the possibility that these things are all parts of what an elephant is.

Respectfully,

-Meldinoor


This message is a reply to:
 Message 173 by subbie, posted 03-10-2010 9:36 AM subbie has acknowledged this reply

  
DC85
Member (Idle past 78 days)
Posts: 876
From: Richmond, Virginia USA
Joined: 05-06-2003


Message 203 of 245 (550101)
03-12-2010 6:28 PM
Reply to: Message 191 by Buzsaw
03-11-2010 12:05 AM


Re: Athiestic Values
I treat gays the same as everyone else, but I'm just telling you the facts
except they aren't facts

Whether you go with evolution or ID, the sex organs were no more designed for gay sex than your car was designed for an all positive battery or a male pipe fitting was designed to connect to another male fitting.

Would it alarm you if I pointed out males are are highly sensitive in the anus? As a matter of fact the prostate gland makes it far more sensitive than a female could ever feel there.... Since this in fact the case did God indeed design it this way?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 191 by Buzsaw, posted 03-11-2010 12:05 AM Buzsaw has not yet responded

  
DC85
Member (Idle past 78 days)
Posts: 876
From: Richmond, Virginia USA
Joined: 05-06-2003


Message 204 of 245 (550105)
03-12-2010 6:38 PM
Reply to: Message 200 by Percy
03-12-2010 4:44 PM


Re: Texas Rewrites History
quote:
In today's New York Times:

Texas Approves Curriculum Revised by Conservatives

Excerpt:

New York Times writes:

after three days of turbulent meetings, the Texas Board of Education on Friday voted to approve a social studies curriculum that will put a conservative stamp on history and economics textbooks, stressing the superiority of American capitalism, questioning the Founding Father’s commitment to a purely secular government and presenting Republican political philosophies in a more positive light.

--Percy


Oh Hell lets just let them succeed it'll show everyone how such "philosophies" will lead them to third world status.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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DevilsAdvocate
Member (Idle past 1415 days)
Posts: 1548
Joined: 06-05-2008


Message 205 of 245 (550108)
03-12-2010 6:54 PM
Reply to: Message 204 by DC85
03-12-2010 6:38 PM


Re: Texas Rewrites History
after three days of turbulent meetings, the Texas Board of Education on Friday voted to approve a social studies curriculum that will put a conservative stamp on history and economics textbooks, stressing the superiority of American capitalism, questioning the Founding Father’s commitment to a purely secular government and presenting Republican political philosophies in a more positive light.


“One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We're no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It is simply too painful to acknowledge -- even to ourselves -- that we've been so credulous.” - Carl Sagan, The Fine Art of Baloney Detection

"You can't convince a believer of anything; for their belief is not based on evidence, it's based on a deep seated need to believe." - Carl Sagan

"It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring." - Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World


This message is a reply to:
 Message 204 by DC85, posted 03-12-2010 6:38 PM DC85 has not yet responded

  
Taz
Member (Idle past 1605 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


Message 206 of 245 (550113)
03-12-2010 7:15 PM
Reply to: Message 200 by Percy
03-12-2010 4:44 PM


Re: Texas Rewrites History
Aren't these christians ashamed of what they are doing, rewriting history like this? I mean... what the hell happened to thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor? I'm sure half the founding fathers just rolled over in their graves.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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dwise1
Member
Posts: 3840
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 207 of 245 (550117)
03-12-2010 7:33 PM
Reply to: Message 206 by Taz
03-12-2010 7:15 PM


Re: Texas Rewrites History
Aren't these christians ashamed of what they are doing, rewriting history like this? I mean... what the hell happened to thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbor?

This is one of those values differences between atheists and Christians that Buz is seeking:
Atheists actually do care about the truth, whereas Christians only give it lip service and will zealously violating it when it they believe it would serve their god -- or even just for the helluvit.

Edited by dwise1, : had left out conjunctive


This message is a reply to:
 Message 206 by Taz, posted 03-12-2010 7:15 PM Taz has not yet responded

  
hooah212002
Member (Idle past 135 days)
Posts: 3183
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 208 of 245 (550119)
03-12-2010 7:38 PM
Reply to: Message 200 by Percy
03-12-2010 4:44 PM


Re: Texas Rewrites History
I even read in one article, some members wanted the Tea Party movement to be put into text books. Already. It's not even history yet for crying out loud.

{ABE}
Wow, this shit is thick. They are removing Thomas Jefferson and replacing him with......Thomas Aquinas.

The standard was about the Enlightenment and political revolutions that led to modern liberal democracy. So they removed the Enlightenment references and Thomas Jefferson, who played a key role in the two most prominent revolutions in the history of the Western world, and replaced them with Thomas Aquinas, who lived 500 years before the Enlightenment, and John Calvin, who lived 200 years before the Enlightenment and was a major figure in an entirely different period of history, the Reformation, which preceded the Enlightenment.

12:32 - Board member Cynthia Dunbar argues that the Founders didn't intend for separation of church and state in America. And she's off on a long lecture about why the Founders intended to promote religion. She calls this amendment "not historically accurate."

http://scienceblogs.com/dispatches/2010/03/texas_boe_removes_jefferson_fr.php

Good job on keeping up the ignorance Texas.

Edited by hooah212002, : No reason given.


"Some people think God is an outsized, light-skinned male with a long white beard, sitting on a throne somewhere up there in the sky, busily tallying the fall of every sparrow. Others—for example Baruch Spinoza and Albert Einstein—considered God to be essentially the sum total of the physical laws which describe the universe. I do not know of any compelling evidence for anthropomorphic patriarchs controlling human destiny from some hidden celestial vantage point, but it would be madness to deny the existence of physical laws."-Carl Sagan

"On a personal note I think he's the greatest wrestler ever. He's better than Lou Thesz, Gorgeous George -- you name it."-The Hulkster on Nature Boy Ric Flair


This message is a reply to:
 Message 200 by Percy, posted 03-12-2010 4:44 PM Percy has acknowledged this reply

  
nwr
Member
Posts: 5586
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005


Message 209 of 245 (550126)
03-12-2010 8:23 PM
Reply to: Message 206 by Taz
03-12-2010 7:15 PM


Re: Texas Rewrites History
Taz writes:
Aren't these christians ashamed of what they are doing, rewriting history like this?

It is more likely that they are proud of putting the truth (what they see as truth) back into the history books.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 206 by Taz, posted 03-12-2010 7:15 PM Taz has not yet responded

  
subbie
Member (Idle past 57 days)
Posts: 3509
Joined: 02-26-2006


Message 210 of 245 (550132)
03-12-2010 8:45 PM
Reply to: Message 200 by Percy
03-12-2010 4:44 PM


Re: Texas Rewrites History
From Google News:

quote:
They also agreed to strike the word "democratic" in references to the form of U.S. government, opting instead to call it a "constitutional republic."

Then proceeded to violate several of the rights guaranteed to us as citizens of a constitutional republic. Presumably, if attacked for this, they would argue, "But this is a democracy, and that's what the majority wants!"

Actually, I'd be willing to bet that they struck "democratic" because they didn't want to do anything to give Democrats any press.


Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. Ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them; and no man ever had a distinct idea of the trinity. It is the mere Abracadabra of the mountebanks calling themselves the priests of Jesus. -- Thomas Jefferson

For we know that our patchwork heritage is a strength, not a weakness. We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and non-believers. -- Barack Obama

We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat


This message is a reply to:
 Message 200 by Percy, posted 03-12-2010 4:44 PM Percy has acknowledged this reply

  
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