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Author Topic:   Homeschooling
Hyroglyphx
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Posts: 5800
From: Austin, TX
Joined: 05-03-2006
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 37 of 51 (550141)
03-12-2010 9:45 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Nunquam
03-11-2010 4:51 PM


What is your take on homeschooling, when practiced by fundamentalist parents as an objection to the teaching of evolution in public school systems? Do you feel as if these children are getting deprived of a proper education? Are they being "brainwashed"? Should homeschooling be illegal, especially when implemented in this manner?

It really depends on the state, as different laws apply. In more progressive places, those interested need to follow California curriculum. Other states like (I think Texas) are a little more liberal when it comes to homeschooling.

There are pro's and con's to homeschooling (mostly "con" in my opinion). But if a family decides that they want to homeschool their kids, I think they should be free to do that provided they follow a curriculum.

I don't see how homeschooling them versus mandatory bible study with mom and dad is any different as far as the brainwashing angle is concerned. And that is perfectly legal.


"Political correctness is tyranny with manners." -- Charlton Heston
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Hyroglyphx
Member
Posts: 5800
From: Austin, TX
Joined: 05-03-2006
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 38 of 51 (550143)
03-12-2010 9:55 PM
Reply to: Message 36 by hooah212002
03-12-2010 7:18 PM


That, IMO, is a huge difference, almost deal breaker, between most of Europe and America. When I was in Germany, I found they also get free "college" (I put it in quotes because to them, they are just going to school=normal, but to us yanks, it's college) for "free" or at least part of the public system. Here? We are lucky if we get college. If your parents were wealthy enough to have saved up for it or pay outright, sure. Otherwise you could incur massive debt in student loans that you likely have for the rest of your life.

First of all, no, they don't go to school for free if they pay taxes. There are no free lunches in the world. Somebody always pays. Secondly, if everyone went to college and all got degrees, then what would separate the college grad from another college grad?

If too many people get a college education, then college ceases to be anything more than an extended version of high school. In which case, what's the point?

Too much emphasis is placed on college as it is and not enough emphasis on trade schools, IMO. I think it is a huge facade manufactured by the educators themselves until you receive a Masters of PhD.

Or maybe you are a middle of the road student in a working class family who does ok in school but your parents aren't rich and you aren't an athlete. No further education for you.

In most European countries they have to join the military because of conscription laws. In the United States you can join the military if you want or opt not to. Along with that comes incentives, like having 100% of your tuition payed by taxes while you're in and receive $300,000 after you complete your tour going towards any degree you want. You also receive an E-5 housing allowance so you don't have to work full time while you get your degree.

There are other ways than having rich parents, having a sick jumpshot, or indebting yourself.

Edited by Hyroglyphx, : No reason given.


"Political correctness is tyranny with manners." -- Charlton Heston
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 Message 36 by hooah212002, posted 03-12-2010 7:18 PM hooah212002 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 40 by hooah212002, posted 03-13-2010 12:22 AM Hyroglyphx has responded

    
Hyroglyphx
Member
Posts: 5800
From: Austin, TX
Joined: 05-03-2006
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 41 of 51 (550205)
03-13-2010 1:54 PM
Reply to: Message 40 by hooah212002
03-13-2010 12:22 AM


College is not the be-all, end-all
Hmm..so long as you pay taxes, you are qualified, right? That's remarkably different than here, innit?

I was just referencing that it is not free. Whether or not you are qualified to go is a separate matter. There needs to be standards in place otherwise what is to stop you from going to their version of an ivy league school without a high school diploma?

So sorry if I feel everyone would have access to higher education. you know, make the world smarter and all. I guess you only want a select few to hold all the knowledge, right? The elites?

No, I'm looking at it from a realistic standpoint. Besides, there is a huge difference between being smart and being knowledgeable.

Just think about it. You have two high school graduates side by side appearing for a job interview. Academically, what makes them more marketable? Nothing. Now imagine if everyone was college educated. It would be the same thing. Nothing would separate one from the other.

The world needs plumbers, and military personnel, and firefighters, and police officers, and janitors, etc, etc. Those don't generally require any kind of college, they just require some specialty knowledge.

Not everyone needs to go to college is my point, and if you saturate the market with college grads, then being a college grad loses its value, right?

Oh, so again, only the select few again. Screw everyone being overall smarter and having more knowledge.

Who said anything about a "select few?" If you personally want to go to college, then you are afforded that right. I am saying that making college compulsory is pointless and actually could have adverse effects on the market. I am saying that society places too much of an emphasis on college. It's a facade. It's not about keeping certain people out, it's about not forgetting that other options exist.

Really? when did this change? (I was in the army). You may want to look that up again and get your facts straight.

The Post 9/11 G.I. Bill, which is phasing out the Montgomery G.I. Bill. If you were in the Army during 9/11 you qualify. If not, or if you've already used your other G.I. Bill, you don't qualify.

You may want to re-investigate what the GI-Bill is, buddy. It's not just a 300k handout.

I know it's not a handout. You have to fill out paperwork and pay a small fee to get in. Then when you go and use it you have to maintain a minimum of a C average and complete all your courses or they won't pay for the class.

quote:
You also receive an E-5 housing allowance so you don't have to work full time while you get your degree.

LMAO. This is just plain absurd. Do you even know what an E-5 is?

I'm an E-4 now and was an E-5 before, so yes I do. I got out of the military as an E-5 and came back in as an E-3 and trying to work my way back up.

Amount of tuition and fees charged, not to exceed the most expensive in-state public institution of higher education. If the tuition and fees at the school you wish to attend are higher than the most expensive in-state tuition, your school may choose to participate in the "Yellow Ribbon" program.

Monthly housing allowance equal to the basic allowance for housing (BAH) amount payable to E-5 with dependents, in same zip code as school*

Yearly books and supplies stipend of up to $1000*

A one-time payment of $500 may be payable to certain individuals relocating from highly rural areas.

Source

It's a sweet deal. The Dept. of Veteran's Affairs finally wised up and realized that it is next to impossible to actually use the G.I. Bill because most people have families and work full-time at their new jobs.

I see again you are arguing just to argue. you got your fancy college edu-ma-cation through (I'm sure) none of the avenues you mentioned, yet you still want to play devils advocate just to do so. Right, it's so easy to get into college in the US. ROFL.

I've been going to school for the last 15 years and still don't have a degree to show for it. This has nothing to do with me being snooty, or whatever else you think. I'm just being practical.

I am not saying that college has no value, because it does in the appropriate avenues. I am saying that this country (and possibly the world) places too much of an emphasis on it as if you're destined to be a loser without it. It's just not true. It's a false sense of security.

Obviously if you want to be a doctor, college is appropriate. But if you want to be a mechanic, you don't need college you need a trade school. And there is nothing wrong with trade schools!

Again, if EVERYONE was a college grad then it would lose its value.


"Political correctness is tyranny with manners." -- Charlton Heston
This message is a reply to:
 Message 40 by hooah212002, posted 03-13-2010 12:22 AM hooah212002 has acknowledged this reply

    
Hyroglyphx
Member
Posts: 5800
From: Austin, TX
Joined: 05-03-2006
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 43 of 51 (550213)
03-13-2010 2:56 PM
Reply to: Message 42 by onifre
03-13-2010 2:39 PM


Culture is why
Then there is private schools, which are mostly white or, like where my daughters go to school, very well off hispanic kids in Miami, Coral Gables to be exact (if you're familiar?).

Personal information removed. --Admin

The white PS will score a lot better than the hispanic PS. But the hispanic PS will score better than the black PS. However, the ENTIRE public school system is graded as a whole. So failing hispanic schools and black schools bring down the overall test scores.

What does that mean as a result? They get less or more allocated funds?

Where as with private schools, since they are for the most part predominantly white, score better than the entire public school system, by a shit load!

But that wouldn't explain why schools like Columbus and Belen have high test scores.

Why do American public schools kinda suck ass, as you asked? Because hispanic kids and black kids (due to many social reasons) do not have the same learning capacity and test scores as their white counter-part.

What?!?! Of course they do. There are cultural reasons why black and hispanic students don't fair as well academically as white students. Or is that what you mean?

For instance, blacks in very poor countries like Jamaica have higher test scores than the average black-American student. So even though the Americans are more highly subsidized, it ultimately comes down to personal initiative. If the Jamaicans can do better with less, then there is an obvious cultural disparity not a racial issue.

Asians are not genetically more intelligent than anyone. Their culture simply instills a superior work ethic than failing Americans, generally speaking, of course. We're just going by averages and nothing more.

Edited by Admin, : Remove personal info.


"Political correctness is tyranny with manners." -- Charlton Heston
This message is a reply to:
 Message 42 by onifre, posted 03-13-2010 2:39 PM onifre has responded

Replies to this message:
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Hyroglyphx
Member
Posts: 5800
From: Austin, TX
Joined: 05-03-2006
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 44 of 51 (550215)
03-13-2010 3:11 PM
Reply to: Message 30 by ZenMonkey
03-12-2010 1:20 PM


Re: Reasons why US schools can be lousy.
Well spoken


"Political correctness is tyranny with manners." -- Charlton Heston
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Hyroglyphx
Member
Posts: 5800
From: Austin, TX
Joined: 05-03-2006
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 46 of 51 (550221)
03-13-2010 3:59 PM
Reply to: Message 45 by onifre
03-13-2010 3:26 PM


Re: Culture is why
Now knowing me, do you think my kids would go to a "Saint" something?

Good point! My sister isn't catholic, but sent her kids to the school because she says that have a good curriculum. I can't say for sure.

Remove personal information. Use PM, guys. --Admin

Haha, yes, I do. That's too funny that your life and mine are so close, and yet somehow we met in an obscure internet forum. You know, I actually fornicated with a young lady on one of the picnic benches some years ago. Don't worry, I'm sure it has since been sterilized. We're talking like 15 years ago

I have lots of teacher friends who work in poor schools in Hialeah, Liberty City, Homestead, etc., who have told me that for most, if not all projects, the teachers fund it out of their own pocket.

Yes, this is absurd and totally unfair to expect the teachers, who get payed shit as it is, to front that money. It's bullshit.

Yeah that's what I mean. I said for "many social reasons," or if you like "cultural reasons" instead, I'm cool with that.

It has nothing to do wit the race itself, if that's what you thought. C'mon on hispanic myself, why would I insult me? Lol

Yeah, I was gonna say! You're totally right. What I don't understand is why it is that way and what can we do to fix it?

I think they instill more pressure and shame on themselves for failing and try harder than anyone to succeed, if only to not humiliate themselves and their family.

There is a system of honor in those cultures that run pretty deep. We're talking centuries upon centuries of tradition here. Shame-based techniques used by the parents to foist on their children, sometimes with massively unrealistic demands, is a common theme. That isn't right either, because the kids have a huge amount of shame when things aren't going exactly how mom and dad envisioned it for themselves, as if their kids are their play-things.

There needs to be some balance. It is good that they push their children to a degree, and to instill respect, a good work ethic, etc, but not to the point where a child's only motivation for success is fear-based.

As a comedian, I'm sure you can appreciate Dr. Ken's stand-up. In an interview he explained how he became a medical doctor (and still is) and that his parents were initially very upset with his career choice. Until, of course, they saw how successful he was at his trade. Plus, according to him, he still is certified and keeps up with medical training.

Edited by Admin, : Remove personal info, fix quote.


"Political correctness is tyranny with manners." -- Charlton Heston
This message is a reply to:
 Message 45 by onifre, posted 03-13-2010 3:26 PM onifre has not yet responded

    
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