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Author Topic:   Evidence for the Biblical Record
hooah212002
Member (Idle past 801 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 106 of 348 (550673)
03-17-2010 8:08 AM
Reply to: Message 90 by Buzsaw
03-16-2010 8:56 PM


Re: All you have are ifs and maybes
Some things are valid evidence and others are maybes, just as it is with QM, String, evolution and BB theory.
The difference here, Buz, is that any "maybe's" in Quantum Mechanics, Relativity Theory, et-cetera, are sought to be proved. Once they are proven wrong, they are scrapped. Anything you are putting out has been disproven, yet you and your kind continue to use it.

"Some people think God is an outsized, light-skinned male with a long white beard, sitting on a throne somewhere up there in the sky, busily tallying the fall of every sparrow. Othersfor example Baruch Spinoza and Albert Einsteinconsidered God to be essentially the sum total of the physical laws which describe the universe. I do not know of any compelling evidence for anthropomorphic patriarchs controlling human destiny from some hidden celestial vantage point, but it would be madness to deny the existence of physical laws."-Carl Sagan
"Show me where Christ said "Love thy fellow man, except for the gay ones." Gay people, too, are made in my God's image. I would never worship a homophobic God." -Desmond Tutu

This message is a reply to:
 Message 90 by Buzsaw, posted 03-16-2010 8:56 PM Buzsaw has seen this message but not replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 107 of 348 (550674)
03-17-2010 8:17 AM
Reply to: Message 105 by Huntard
03-17-2010 4:30 AM


Re: Observing the Evidence.
Huntard, get a passport, go and see the route, look at the beach, hire a diver and look in the water, risk you life and go ashore on the other side, view the column, look at the split rock and the water wash, check out for oasiss in the region, check out the geography as to where Midian was, oh, I forgot. Have a look at the photographed bull inscriptions near the bottom of the burnt mountain, get back to us and report if the evidence is as I have described and if it matches the Biblical account. Thanks in advance, be careful to stay alive and enjoy the trip! Buz

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 105 by Huntard, posted 03-17-2010 4:30 AM Huntard has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 108 by Huntard, posted 03-17-2010 8:40 AM Buzsaw has replied
 Message 110 by greyseal, posted 03-17-2010 10:48 AM Buzsaw has not replied

  
Huntard
Member (Idle past 2294 days)
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


Message 108 of 348 (550675)
03-17-2010 8:40 AM
Reply to: Message 107 by Buzsaw
03-17-2010 8:17 AM


Re: Observing the Evidence.
Buzsaw writes:
Huntard, get a passport...
Check.
...go and see the route, look at the beach, hire a diver and look in the water,...
While I'm sure there will be a lot to see there, why should I do this? You haven't done this, and you're convinced. So, what evidence convinced you? Remember, asserting is not evidence.
...risk you life and go ashore on the other side...
Nice Buz, very nice....
....view the column, look at the split rock and the water wash, check out for oasiss in the region, check out the geography as to where Midian was,
Again, why should I? I'm not gonna find anything there. At least, nothing you have provided me here is filling me with high hopes. I'd rather spend my money on more useful stuff.
Have a look at the photographed bull inscriptions near the bottom of the burnt mountain, get back to us and report if the evidence is as I have described and if it matches the Biblical account.
I'm sure there are bulls there. What I dispute is that they were carved there during the exodus. Any evidence for that?
Thanks in advance, be careful to stay alive and enjoy the trip! Buz.
Again, while I'm pretty sure many amazing and beatiful things can be seen there, I'm not going to spend my money on doing the research that was already done and didn't turn up anything at all. If there really is compelling evidence, how hard is it for you to point to it and say: "There it is, this is hard evidence that the exodus happened!". You haven't done any of this, however. You have cited some things the route should have, if it were to fullfill the criteria of the story. Ok, fine, I'll grant you that, the route does. This is completely irrelevant however! The route can match it perfectly, does this mean they actually took it? NO! That is what I want evidence for, them actually taking the route!
The same goes for the Pillar. You assert it was erected there by the jews. Well, show me evidence for that. Then show me evidence that it was erected because of the exodus. Show me evidence for the "other pillar", show me evidence the coral are chariot wheels.
To make a long point short:
SHOW ME THE EVIDENCE!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 107 by Buzsaw, posted 03-17-2010 8:17 AM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 111 by Buzsaw, posted 03-17-2010 10:55 AM Huntard has replied

  
Huntard
Member (Idle past 2294 days)
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


Message 109 of 348 (550679)
03-17-2010 9:36 AM


About the sheer amount of people
One more thing I'd like to discuss.
What about the sheer amount of people involved. They number in the millions (anyone got a more or less accurate estimate?)
I did some calculations, If we allow each person a 50 cm by 50 cm square to move in (which I think is way too small, but meh). And given that they would walk in columns of 100 people wide (they really couldn't have done more then that with all the canyons). At 5,000,000 people, this would make it 50 metres wide, by 25 Km long! An average walking speed is about 3-4 Km/hour, this would mean that when the first ones stopped to make up camp, it would take the last people to arive at this camp at least 6 hours to reach the site. At which time the first ones would have to be on the move again (remember, they are being pursued).
Even at half those people (2,500,000) it would still be 12.5 Km long. That's still 4 hours before the last ones arive.
That's just undoable, man.

  
greyseal
Member (Idle past 3861 days)
Posts: 464
Joined: 08-11-2009


Message 110 of 348 (550686)
03-17-2010 10:48 AM
Reply to: Message 107 by Buzsaw
03-17-2010 8:17 AM


Re: Observing the Evidence.
Huntard, get a passport, go and see the route, look at the beach, hire a diver and look in the water
Wow, Buz, that "chariot wheel" is sooooo....underwhelming. It should have been childsplay to get good evidence off of something like that, but no - we get a mock-up and zero authentic pictures.
risk you life and go ashore on the other side, view the column,
you mean the one that was allegedly put up by Solomon allegedly four hundred years after the "event" - if there even was one? That column? Seriously?
look at the split rock and the water wash, check out for oasiss in the region, check out the geography as to where Midian was,
oh wow! a...rock...like, what, one like this?
oh, no wait, you meant this one
...not exactly rare, are they?
oh, I forgot. Have a look at the photographed bull inscriptions near the bottom of the burnt mountain
oh! oh! wait! this picture?
...that's a really poor picture. I wonder why, with today's digital cameras and high numbers of pixels, I'm sure i can get a better one...
yeah...that's...not what you said it was at all.
get back to us and report if the evidence is as I have described and if it matches the Biblical account. Thanks in advance, be careful to stay alive and enjoy the trip! Buz
Sadly, you got nothin'.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 107 by Buzsaw, posted 03-17-2010 8:17 AM Buzsaw has not replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 111 of 348 (550688)
03-17-2010 10:55 AM
Reply to: Message 108 by Huntard
03-17-2010 8:40 AM


Re: Show Me The Evidence.
Dear Whistler In The Wind:
Claim: All living things evolved from one organism.
SHOW ME THE EVIDENCE!

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 108 by Huntard, posted 03-17-2010 8:40 AM Huntard has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 112 by Dr Jack, posted 03-17-2010 11:01 AM Buzsaw has seen this message but not replied
 Message 113 by Huntard, posted 03-17-2010 11:03 AM Buzsaw has seen this message but not replied
 Message 121 by lyx2no, posted 03-17-2010 5:35 PM Buzsaw has replied

  
Dr Jack
Member
Posts: 3514
From: Immigrant in the land of Deutsch
Joined: 07-14-2003
Member Rating: 8.7


Message 112 of 348 (550690)
03-17-2010 11:01 AM
Reply to: Message 111 by Buzsaw
03-17-2010 10:55 AM


Off topic
If you would like to discuss that off topic point, please start a new thread.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 111 by Buzsaw, posted 03-17-2010 10:55 AM Buzsaw has seen this message but not replied

  
Huntard
Member (Idle past 2294 days)
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


Message 113 of 348 (550692)
03-17-2010 11:03 AM
Reply to: Message 111 by Buzsaw
03-17-2010 10:55 AM


Re: Show Me The Evidence.
Why do you keep deflecting to off-topic stuff? Got no evidence to show?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 111 by Buzsaw, posted 03-17-2010 10:55 AM Buzsaw has seen this message but not replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 114 of 348 (550698)
03-17-2010 11:30 AM


Techy Evidence
Perhaps it's time to move on to some more of the corroborating evidences of the veracity of the Biblical record; prophecies relative to modern technology.
Prophet John; NT; you read it first in your Bible; technology of television prophesied 2 milleniums before the fact:
Revelation 11 (ASV)
7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that cometh up out of the abyss shall make war with them, and overcome them, and kill them. 8 And their dead bodies lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also their Lord was crucified. 9 And from among the peoples and tribes and tongues and nations do men look upon their dead bodies three days and a half, and suffer not their dead bodies to be laid in a tomb. 10 And they that dwell on the earth rejoice over them, and make merry; and they shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwell on the earth.
11 And after the three days and a half the breath of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them that beheld them. 12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they went up into heaven in the cloud; and their enemies beheld them. 13 And in that hour there was a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell; and there were killed in the earthquake seven thousand persons: and the rest were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.
(embolding mine)

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

Replies to this message:
 Message 116 by PaulK, posted 03-17-2010 11:40 AM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 119 by Taq, posted 03-17-2010 4:37 PM Buzsaw has not replied
 Message 120 by Peg, posted 03-17-2010 5:06 PM Buzsaw has replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 115 of 348 (550699)
03-17-2010 11:36 AM


Re: Fairness
Huntard and Mr Jack; My intention was not to lead off topic but to drive home an assumed EvC fairness doctrine; What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

Replies to this message:
 Message 117 by Coragyps, posted 03-17-2010 2:20 PM Buzsaw has not replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 116 of 348 (550700)
03-17-2010 11:40 AM
Reply to: Message 114 by Buzsaw
03-17-2010 11:30 AM


Re: Techy Evidence
quote:
Perhaps it's time to move on to some more of the corroborating evidences of the veracity of the Biblical record; prophecies relative to modern technology.
Prophet John; NT; you read it first in your Bible; technology of television prophesied 2 milleniums before the fact:
So how exactly does this "predict" television ? It's not as if nobody travelled in those days. There would have been many foreigners in Rome from slaves, merchants and likely not a few immigrants hoping to make it in the greatest city in thee world.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 114 by Buzsaw, posted 03-17-2010 11:30 AM Buzsaw has not replied

  
Coragyps
Member (Idle past 734 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 117 of 348 (550715)
03-17-2010 2:20 PM
Reply to: Message 115 by Buzsaw
03-17-2010 11:36 AM


Re: Fairness
Huntard and Mr Jack; My intention was not to lead off topic but to drive home an assumed EvC fairness doctrine; What's good for the goose is good for the gander.
And folks here have spent how many man-years typing about the fossil record, and the universal DNA code, and pseudogenes, and nested hierachies, and endogenous retroviruses, for what, exactly? Damn sure not for Buz to read, obviously.
We have the frickin' evidence, Buz. You got nuthin'.

"The wretched world lies now under the tyranny of foolishness; things are believed by Christians of such absurdity as no one ever could aforetime induce the heathen to believe." - Agobard of Lyons, ca. 830 AD

This message is a reply to:
 Message 115 by Buzsaw, posted 03-17-2010 11:36 AM Buzsaw has not replied

  
Apothecus
Member (Idle past 2410 days)
Posts: 275
From: CA USA
Joined: 01-05-2010


Message 118 of 348 (550722)
03-17-2010 3:46 PM
Reply to: Message 101 by Buzsaw
03-16-2010 11:55 PM


Re: Heaps of Jeeps.
Apothecus writes:
I realize you say "I may be mistaken, but..." but if by this you mean "I made this up sitting right here at my desk", I'm going to have to call bullshit on you, here.
The topic title calls for evidence, Apothecus. Do what you want with the evidence which I've cited. We could debate the unknowns till the cows come home, just as with the alleged singularity of the BB, abiogenesis and that stuff.
Thank you, Buz, for that well-reasoned and thought provoking response to the questions I asked (which were all on-topic, BTW, in stark contrast to your various continued red-herrings).
Maybe the next time I have the urge to construct a thoughtful response to one of your inane posts, I'll just kick myself in the jimmy instead of wasting my time.

"My own suspicion is that the Universe is not only queerer than we suppose, but queerer than we can suppose. J.B.S Haldane 1892-1964

This message is a reply to:
 Message 101 by Buzsaw, posted 03-16-2010 11:55 PM Buzsaw has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 9970
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.6


Message 119 of 348 (550727)
03-17-2010 4:37 PM
Reply to: Message 114 by Buzsaw
03-17-2010 11:30 AM


Re: Techy Evidence
Perhaps it's time to move on to some more of the corroborating evidences of the veracity of the Biblical record; prophecies relative to modern technology.
Prophet John; NT; you read it first in your Bible; technology of television prophesied 2 milleniums before the fact:
Revelation 11 (ASV)
I don't know how you got "television" out of that. I don't know what you are smoking, but I do think you should share.
And to think that creationists describe themselves as the arbiters of what the Bible really says . . . wow, that's scary.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 114 by Buzsaw, posted 03-17-2010 11:30 AM Buzsaw has not replied

  
Peg
Member (Idle past 4929 days)
Posts: 2703
From: melbourne, australia
Joined: 11-22-2008


(1)
Message 120 of 348 (550731)
03-17-2010 5:06 PM
Reply to: Message 114 by Buzsaw
03-17-2010 11:30 AM


Re: Techy Evidence
Buz,
Buzsaw writes:
Perhaps it's time to move on to some more of the corroborating evidences of the veracity of the Biblical record; prophecies relative to modern technology.
Prophet John; NT; you read it first in your Bible; technology of television prophesied 2 milleniums before the fact:
Revelation 11 (ASV)
i think you are taking it a bit far to say that prophecy in Rev is refering to televisions
I can see why you might put it to television, but i dont believe that's got anythign to do with televisions.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 114 by Buzsaw, posted 03-17-2010 11:30 AM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 123 by Buzsaw, posted 03-17-2010 10:29 PM Peg has replied

  
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