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Author
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Topic: Gun Control & 2nd Amendment
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Theodoric
Member Posts: 9142 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: 08-15-2005 Member Rating: 3.3
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Message 88 of 218 (551047)
03-20-2010 2:00 PM
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Reply to: Message 86 by Flyer75
03-20-2010 12:51 PM
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Re: Guns don't make you safer.
Basically it takes is a $200 tax stamp.
quote:
Your dealer will send us the proper paperwork for this first transfer, we prepare and fax the Form 3 transfer to BATF immediately, and then once the transfer clears BATF (less than 2 weeks) we ship the gun to your dealer. Your in-state dealer then prepares Form 4 paperwork, which you will sign and also have signed by the Chief Law Enforcement Officer in your locale (Sheriff, Chief of Police, State Police Chief, etc...only need for one to sign). You return the completed Form 4's to the in-state dealer, along with (2) passport size photos, (2) fingerprint cards, (1) citizenship authorization, and a transfer tax check made payable to Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms for the one time per item transfer tax. A $200.00 transfer tax applies to Short BBL Shotguns, Short BBL Rifles, Machine Guns and Suppressors; a $5.00 transfer tax applies to items classified as Any Other Weapons - "AOW". This paperwork is mailed to BATF and when this transfer clears you go pick up your gun.
Source
Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 86 by Flyer75, posted 03-20-2010 12:51 PM | | Flyer75 has not replied |
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Theodoric
Member Posts: 9142 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: 08-15-2005 Member Rating: 3.3
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Message 90 of 218 (551049)
03-20-2010 2:06 PM
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Reply to: Message 89 by Flyer75
03-20-2010 2:01 PM
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Re: Guns don't make you safer.
Clinton banned this in his sweeping gun ban legislation which made even getting semi auto weapons more difficult. Assault weapons ban had nothing to do with fully auto. Dealt only with semi-auto assault weapons.
I may be wrong on this but 99.9% (yes, it's going down) sure that you cannot purchase a fully auto weapon.
Well the .01% wins. You are wrong. See my previous post.
Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 89 by Flyer75, posted 03-20-2010 2:01 PM | | Flyer75 has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 92 by Flyer75, posted 03-20-2010 2:42 PM | | Theodoric has replied |
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Theodoric
Member Posts: 9142 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: 08-15-2005 Member Rating: 3.3
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Message 94 of 218 (551063)
03-20-2010 3:05 PM
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Reply to: Message 92 by Flyer75
03-20-2010 2:42 PM
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Re: Guns don't make you safer.
Does this work for you?
quote:
t has been unlawful since 1934 (The National Firearms Act) for civilians to own machine guns without special permission from the U.S. Treasury Department. Machine guns are subject to a $200 tax every time their ownership changes from one federally registered owner to another, and each new weapon is subject to a manufacturing tax when it is made, and it must be registered with the Bureau of Alcohol Tobacco and Firearms (BATF) in its National Firearms Registry. To become a registered owner, a complete FBI background investigation is conducted, checking for any criminal history or tendencies toward violence, and an application must be submitted to the BATF including two sets of fingerprints, a recent photo, a sworn affidavit that transfer of the NFA firearm is of "reasonable necessity," and that sale to and possession of the weapon by the applicant "would be consistent with public safety." The application form also requires the signature of a chief law enforcement officer with jurisdiction in the applicant's residence. Since the Firearms Owners' Protection Act of May 19, 1986, ownership of newly manufactured machine guns has been prohibited to civilians. Machine guns which were manufactured prior to the Act's passage are regulated under the National Firearms Act, but those manufactured after the ban cannot ordinarily be sold to or owned by civilians.
Souce Still legal, just lots of hoops.
Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 92 by Flyer75, posted 03-20-2010 2:42 PM | | Flyer75 has not replied |
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Theodoric
Member Posts: 9142 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: 08-15-2005 Member Rating: 3.3
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Message 111 of 218 (551292)
03-22-2010 9:22 AM
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Reply to: Message 106 by ICANT
03-21-2010 1:55 AM
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Re: Guns
I can't find the amendment to the constitution that the states radified giving the federal government the authority to regulate anything about my gun ownership. The same can be said about murder. There are federal laws against murder. Do you think they are invalid? Also, you really need to understand reality before you make a lame argument. Gun control laws are rarely at the federal level, AWB is a notable exception. The radical right constantly harps for states rights and local determination, But as soon as states or localities make a law they do not agree with they go straight to the federal level. The Washington D.C. ban was a local law, not federal. The law in Chicago area is a local law, not federal. So what is it? Are gun rights a federal or local issue? Or do you want it in what ever way helps your argument at that moment?
Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 106 by ICANT, posted 03-21-2010 1:55 AM | | ICANT has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 114 by ICANT, posted 03-22-2010 2:05 PM | | Theodoric has not replied |
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Theodoric
Member Posts: 9142 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: 08-15-2005 Member Rating: 3.3
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Re: Guns don't make you safer.
I am not anti-gun. I am pro gun rights within certain limitations and pro-gun control. This is not an either-or dilemna. I see this as the crux of the issue Hyro has with other debaters. He cannot conceive that someone can be pro-gun rights, but willing to call for gun control. For him it is an either/or dilemma. He is making a false dichotomy and reaches for spurious quotes and reasoning in order to back up this false dichotomy.
Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
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Theodoric
Member Posts: 9142 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: 08-15-2005 Member Rating: 3.3
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Message 177 of 218 (552093)
03-26-2010 1:55 PM
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Reply to: Message 176 by ICANT
03-26-2010 1:50 PM
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I beg to differ
We live in the freest nation in the world as of today. Please define free. Here is where I beg to differ.
But we are not as free today as we were 50 years ago.
A number of people I think would disagree. Have you ever heard of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 quote:
It prohibited discrimination in public facilities, in government, and in employment, invalidating the Jim Crow laws in the southern U.S. It became illegal to compel segregation of the races in schools, housing, or hiring.
Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 176 by ICANT, posted 03-26-2010 1:50 PM | | ICANT has not replied |
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Theodoric
Member Posts: 9142 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: 08-15-2005 Member Rating: 3.3
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Message 186 of 218 (552194)
03-27-2010 9:12 AM
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Reply to: Message 184 by AZPaul3
03-26-2010 11:36 PM
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Depending
All depending upon the circumstances of course, but if the local DA doesn't then most probably the jury would. There are many permutations of the "castle" law. Most in the US are complete perversions of the original english common law. Every state has a different take on it and some do not have a "castle" law at all. So the dependency is not on the DA or jury, but on the law.
Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 184 by AZPaul3, posted 03-26-2010 11:36 PM | | AZPaul3 has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 188 by AZPaul3, posted 03-27-2010 10:39 AM | | Theodoric has not replied |
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Theodoric
Member Posts: 9142 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: 08-15-2005 Member Rating: 3.3
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Judge, jury and executioner?
WE decide when we are justified in "taking the law into our own hands" through the appropriate means according to the particular case. Just to be clear here. You are advocating that an individual has the right to determine when, where and how they should be able to shoot someone? Isn't that an advocacy of anarchy?
Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 200 by New Cat's Eye, posted 03-29-2010 12:11 PM | | Theodoric has seen this message but not replied |
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Theodoric
Member Posts: 9142 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: 08-15-2005 Member Rating: 3.3
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Message 191 of 218 (552222)
03-27-2010 1:30 PM
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Reply to: Message 190 by Jon
03-27-2010 1:28 PM
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Do you really not understand the term "redcoats"? Or are you trying to make some non-understandable point? Edited by Theodoric, : forgot non
Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 190 by Jon, posted 03-27-2010 1:28 PM | | Jon has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 193 by Jon, posted 03-27-2010 9:53 PM | | Theodoric has replied |
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Theodoric
Member Posts: 9142 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: 08-15-2005 Member Rating: 3.3
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Message 194 of 218 (552269)
03-27-2010 10:11 PM
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Reply to: Message 193 by Jon
03-27-2010 9:53 PM
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oh please do explain
His original comment was.
A citizens' militia is no longer necessary since there are considerable police forces available to keep the equivalent of "them injuns and redcoats" away. Care to explain to us that have no idea what you are trying to say? Maybe someone else gets it and can explain to me. I have no idea how what he means can even be questioned.
Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 193 by Jon, posted 03-27-2010 9:53 PM | | Jon has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 195 by Jon, posted 03-27-2010 11:19 PM | | Theodoric has replied |
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Theodoric
Member Posts: 9142 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: 08-15-2005 Member Rating: 3.3
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Message 196 of 218 (552281)
03-27-2010 11:21 PM
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Reply to: Message 195 by Jon
03-27-2010 11:19 PM
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Re: oh please do explain
I have no desire to play games. Make your point or don't.
Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 195 by Jon, posted 03-27-2010 11:19 PM | | Jon has not replied |
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Theodoric
Member Posts: 9142 From: Northwest, WI, USA Joined: 08-15-2005 Member Rating: 3.3
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Message 207 of 218 (552537)
03-29-2010 7:36 PM
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Reply to: Message 206 by Faith
03-29-2010 7:25 PM
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Re: Marxism in America
ho grew up to become the core of the Sixties' political radicals who led the Marxist Revolution of that time.
I was just a kid at the time. but I am sure I would have remembered a revolution.
You could also read the writings of the Cultural Marxists or Freudian Marxists who were very big on the campuses in those days, basically all about taking down the Christian traditions of the West in favor of Marxist ideas.
Really? really?
They sent out a whole generation of Marxists to teach in the schools and we now have two or three generations raised on their propaganda instead of the principles of the American founding.
Who are "they"? What is this propaganda that has been taught in the schools?
I don't believe in government welfare but I do believe in what the Bible teaches about earning money if you can to help others who can't. It should all be voluntary.
Yeah that works well. How much of the money the Wall Street execs stole do you think they are giving back? SO you don't believe in Social Security, Medicare medicaid, VA medical, heck the whole VA must be Marxist in your eyes. No unemployment benefits, no food stamps. You know the poor are poor because they are lazy. Are schools a form of welfare in your eyes?
It should all be voluntary. I'm sure if conservatives followed that teaching we would never have had a movement for the government to steal their hard earned money from them against their will.
Who is the government stealing from? You mean taxes? I have to stop the wingnuttery in this post is just plain overwhelming.
Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 206 by Faith, posted 03-29-2010 7:25 PM | | Faith has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 208 by Faith, posted 03-29-2010 7:39 PM | | Theodoric has not replied |
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