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Author Topic:   Report discussion problems here: No.2
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 301 of 468 (551092)
03-20-2010 9:43 PM
Reply to: Message 300 by New Cat's Eye
03-20-2010 2:30 PM


Re: I have to make a comment
Some people feel the need to run off and tattle to Daddy and some have self-respect. We're all different.
Edited by Hyroglyphx, : typo

"Political correctness is tyranny with manners." -- Charlton Heston

This message is a reply to:
 Message 300 by New Cat's Eye, posted 03-20-2010 2:30 PM New Cat's Eye has not replied

Adminnemooseus
Administrator
Posts: 3974
Joined: 09-26-2002


Message 302 of 468 (551100)
03-21-2010 12:29 AM


24 hour suspensions to the above 3 posters
The original message is legitimate. The following messages are not. This is NOT a discussion topic.
Suspension announcement.
Adminnemooseus

New Members should start HERE to get an understanding of what makes great posts.
Report a problem etc. type topics:
Report discussion problems here: No.2
Thread Reopen Requests 2
Topic Proposal Issues
Other useful links:
Forum Guidelines
Admin writes:
It really helps moderators figure out if a topic is disintegrating because of general misbehavior versus someone in particular if the originally non-misbehaving members kept it that way. When everyone is prickly and argumentative and off-topic and personal then it's just too difficult to tell. We have neither infinite time to untie the Gordian knot, nor the wisdom of Solomon.
There used to be a comedian who presented his ideas for a better world, and one of them was to arm everyone on the highway with little rubber dart guns. Every time you see a driver doing something stupid, you fire a little dart at his car. When a state trooper sees someone driving down the highway with a bunch of darts all over his car he pulls him over for being an idiot.
Please make it easy to tell you apart from the idiots. Message 150

Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 284 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 303 of 468 (551132)
03-21-2010 9:58 AM
Reply to: Message 295 by Pauline
03-08-2010 8:17 PM


I agree that bias plays a BIG role in the user rating system on these forums.
Bias? You mean people rate posts according to their content, not just their grammar and spelling?
I hardly see any way round this. Obviously people are going to prefer posts that seem to them to contain solid facts and good reasoning over those that seem deficient in both.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 295 by Pauline, posted 03-08-2010 8:17 PM Pauline has not replied

Dr Jack
Member
Posts: 3514
From: Immigrant in the land of Deutsch
Joined: 07-14-2003
Member Rating: 8.7


Message 304 of 468 (551351)
03-22-2010 1:03 PM


Catholic Scientist and Theodoric at it again
From message 28 here.

Replies to this message:
 Message 305 by Theodoric, posted 03-22-2010 1:17 PM Dr Jack has seen this message but not replied

Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 305 of 468 (551358)
03-22-2010 1:17 PM
Reply to: Message 304 by Dr Jack
03-22-2010 1:03 PM


Re: Catholic Scientist and Theodoric at it again
I accept my role in this. I responded to his instigation again. I will no longer respond to his personal attacks. I am apologize to all other members for being a distraction form the debates.
If the mods feel the need for another suspension I will accept gracefully. I should be adult enough not to respond to his attacks..

This message is a reply to:
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Kitsune
Member (Idle past 4300 days)
Posts: 788
From: Leicester, UK
Joined: 09-16-2007


Message 306 of 468 (553023)
04-01-2010 8:53 AM


Faith in "Marxism"
Message 179 in Coffee House.
Er . . . just exasperation at the debate style, or lack thereof.

Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


(1)
Message 307 of 468 (553041)
04-01-2010 9:23 AM


Please suspend me. I can't stand this place. You're all insane.

Replies to this message:
 Message 308 by Huntard, posted 04-01-2010 9:41 AM Faith has not replied
 Message 309 by Kitsune, posted 04-01-2010 9:49 AM Faith has not replied
 Message 313 by dwise1, posted 04-01-2010 11:51 PM Faith has not replied

Huntard
Member (Idle past 2295 days)
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


Message 308 of 468 (553049)
04-01-2010 9:41 AM
Reply to: Message 307 by Faith
04-01-2010 9:23 AM


That would be a shame, but well, it's your choice.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 307 by Faith, posted 04-01-2010 9:23 AM Faith has not replied

Kitsune
Member (Idle past 4300 days)
Posts: 788
From: Leicester, UK
Joined: 09-16-2007


Message 309 of 468 (553056)
04-01-2010 9:49 AM
Reply to: Message 307 by Faith
04-01-2010 9:23 AM


It's nothing personal Faith, honestly. It's the format of this forum -- in order to discuss a topic you engage in debate. Maybe there are some views you don't feel comfortable having challenged here just now, or in this way. Can you think of some topics here that feel less likely to provoke strong emotions? I know what it's like to be on the receiving end and ganged up on, it's happened to me several times here and it can be frustrating. But if you post the sorts of comments you have in the Marxism thread you must expect to be challenged because there are people who will disagree and put their own views forward.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 307 by Faith, posted 04-01-2010 9:23 AM Faith has not replied

Admin
Director
Posts: 12998
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 310 of 468 (553060)
04-01-2010 9:56 AM


Experiencing Faith
Faith espouses a number of views that to many seem both externally and internally inconsistent, and so her threads tend to attract many participants. She is very thoughtful and articulate, but she also tends to interpret disagreement and inability to make sense of her position as antagonism. This causes many of her threads to self-destruct in an explosion of what to many appear to be uninstigated recriminations. Faith usually quickly recovers from these episodes.
Hopefully this background information will help discussion move forward more smoothly, but keep in mind that you could become very invested in a discussion that blows up and never resumes.

--Percy
EvC Forum Director

Replies to this message:
 Message 311 by Kitsune, posted 04-01-2010 10:13 AM Admin has seen this message but not replied
 Message 312 by Hyroglyphx, posted 04-01-2010 5:36 PM Admin has seen this message but not replied

Kitsune
Member (Idle past 4300 days)
Posts: 788
From: Leicester, UK
Joined: 09-16-2007


Message 311 of 468 (553066)
04-01-2010 10:13 AM
Reply to: Message 310 by Admin
04-01-2010 9:56 AM


Re: Experiencing Faith
This seems to be a very accurate summary; noted.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 310 by Admin, posted 04-01-2010 9:56 AM Admin has seen this message but not replied

Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 312 of 468 (553166)
04-01-2010 5:36 PM
Reply to: Message 310 by Admin
04-01-2010 9:56 AM


Re: Experiencing Faith
This causes many of her threads to self-destruct in an explosion of what to many appear to be uninstigated recriminations. Faith usually quickly recovers from these episodes.
Somebody once said to me about a woman who constantly screams at her children, "Her anger is explosive, but it doesn't last long," as if to minimize the transgression because of its brevity.
To which I responded, "Wanna know what else is explosive, but doesn't last long? A fucking hand grenade! But it sure does a whole lot of damage in that short amount of time, doesn't it?"
I'm beginning to see why she was suspended for so long. And please don't get me wrong, as I am not advocating that she be jailed so soon after being paroled but, damn! That kind of toxic anger will rot the soul. Converts must be lining up around the corner!
Edited by Hyroglyphx, : typo correction
Edited by Hyroglyphx, : Edit to add

"Political correctness is tyranny with manners." -- Charlton Heston

This message is a reply to:
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dwise1
Member
Posts: 5930
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.8


(1)
Message 313 of 468 (553217)
04-01-2010 11:51 PM
Reply to: Message 307 by Faith
04-01-2010 9:23 AM


I can't stand this place. You're all insane.
In Lindy class, as in almost all other dance classes, we rotate partners (there need to be special reasons for not rotating). As our Lindy teacher tells us, we will find that some of our partners dance well while we will have problems with others. However, if you have problems with each one of your partners, then you are the problem.
Just offering that as a friendly suggestion that if you are experiencing problems with everybody else, then there is likely something about your approach or your perceptions that creates those problems or make them worse.
In dancing as a leader, even if it's clear that my partner is the cause of the problems we're having, I still take responsibility for those problems. My reasoning is that the only person I can control is myself -- in partner dancing, the leader gives the follower an indication of how she is to respond, so it's still up to her to actively follow my lead. If she is having a problem following (common for beginning followers), then I may be able to help her by making my lead stronger and more clear so that she can feel what's being led and can learn how to follow. Of course, if she's like my ex and refuses to follow, then all it can ever become is a very unpleasant wrestling match (been there, had to dance that).
And an interesting thing about leading is that most of the time it involves following the follower. I give her the lead, the indication of where to go and what to do, and she reacts to the indication (AKA "follows"). She might not do exactly what I had intended. She might even do something entirely different (in which case, as taught by my first country 2-step teacher, I'm supposed to claim that what she did is what I was leading). I need to deal with what she does and position myself and her for the next move -- or even decide upon the next move based on where we end up. Many times we do not end up where the leader has planned, but reacting to that is a lot of the fun. And even if she does follow my lead correctly, exactly how far she travels, how fast she turns, where her arms/hands end up, exactly when her back is there for me to pick up (avoid those speed bumps!) ... all that will vary. I need to gauge all that and end up where I need to be when I need to be there -- that's the following that the leader needs to do.
So you might think of a thread you start as a dance you're leading (there are variations of dances where a man can dance with multiple partners at the same time; eg, Double Bug). You provide your lead, but we don't quite follow it as you wanted us to do. Do you just stand there glaring at us accusing of us of not following? How long to you think a guy would last in a dance community if he did that? No, once you provide the indication of the direction that you intend, you then follow us as any half-way decent leader must do. You see how we followed and then you react (ie, set up the lead for your next move) accordingly.
Now, in just about every group class you learn a routine (a short choreography, a fixed sequence of the moves that you're being taught along with ways to seque (look it up; sounds like "Segway" but it's not that geeky mechanical conveyance) from one move to the other. There are leaders, especially beginners, who only learn those routines and then try to use those routines while dancing socially. That presents two distinct problems:
1. Some routines are not leadable, so the only women you can possibly dance them with are the ones who had taken that same class as you had and still remember what they had learned in that class.
2. Even the leadable routines will often fail, because the guys never learned to lead them. In a group class, because the women know what the next move is, they won't wait to be led but rather will go ahead and do the move without being led. The guys think that it's working when in reality they never had a chance to lead it. Then they try it on the social dance floor and cannot understand why it suddenly won't work. Similarly, the women, by knowing ahead of time what they're supposed to do, can end up not learning how to follow.
Around 1970 (I was of the high school class of '69), a number of friends had converted to fundamentalism as part of the "Jesus Freak" movement (hippies who "got turned on to Jesus"; that was their own name for their own movement). I learned a lot about fundamentalism at that time and saw and experience (on the receiving end) a lot of proselytizing. I also saw a lot of the materials used to train them in their proselytizing (those god-awful Chick Pubs tracts, for example). Just as many group dance classes give their students choreographed routines to dance, those proselytizing training materials would give their students scripts to run: here's the "unanswerable" question you ask, here's your victim's confused response, here's your next question, etc until you get to your victim's inevitable conversion.
So what happens when your intended victim strays from that script? I have seen it happen often. Like the beginner dance leader, the proselytizer is caught flat on his feet. Always keep your weight on the balls of your feet. If you let your weight settle to your heels, then you are dead in the water. You cannot move; you cannot react; you cannot even think.
Don't rely on scripts you've learned. You need to think. Stay alert, stay on the balls of your feet. Lead the next move and then follow your partner(s) and be ready to react to what they did and in setting up the next move. Even when your body is motionless, your mind must be in constant motion -- in West Coast Swing, the advanced leaders will use "advanced footwork" which means that their feet don't move, but their timing and weight changes are still right on the mark, making "advanced footwork" truly advanced.
It is completely within your control to make these "dances" of ourse successful. Or abysmal failures. Your choice. Just remember to stay on the balls of your feet.
PS
I forgot something else.
Recently, Robert Duvall's movie, Assassination Tango, has been playing on the movie channels. In one scene as his new friend is teaching him Argentine Tango, she's reminding him of what he's forgetting:
"Balance ... {something else I couldn't quite catch} ... balance ... smile."
Some time ago, I came across 25 (as I recall) pieces of advice purported offered by famous jazz muscian Dizzy Gillespie (he had cheeks that made even Kermit the Frog turn green with envy -- yes, he was once a guest on the Muppet Show), advice meant for swing (Lindy) dancing, but applicable to other areas of life as well. The last three points in Dizzy's Desiderata are:
quote:
With all the hamstring pulls, shin splints and occasional bruises, the dance is still beautiful.
Smile.
Strive to hear the one.
No, that last one is purely musical -- in the 8 counts of dance music, you want to dance with the music's natural phrasing, starting on the "One". I'm pointing you to the next to last one: Smile.
Though my personal favorite is: Nurture skill in several dances so you can go dancing and still avoid your ex.
Edited by dwise1, : PS

This message is a reply to:
 Message 307 by Faith, posted 04-01-2010 9:23 AM Faith has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 314 by AdminPD, posted 04-02-2010 6:37 AM dwise1 has not replied

AdminPD
Inactive Administrator


Message 314 of 468 (553235)
04-02-2010 6:37 AM
Reply to: Message 313 by dwise1
04-01-2010 11:51 PM


Reporting Discussion Problems Only
Since this thread is for reporting Discussion Problems, I suggest that any more advice for Faith be posted in the Percy allowed me back thread.
P.S. The debating dance. I like the dance analogy. I love dancing. If a man can lead, I can follow. In square dancing a gentleman got upset because I didn't follow through with a spin. I was off balance and would have fallen on my face. So instead of a fiasco, no one knew there was an issue, except the gentleman with the bad attitude. He was insulted. Didn't dance with him again. In square dancing you don't want the square to break down.
Again good analogy.
Don't anyone respond to my dance comments please.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 313 by dwise1, posted 04-01-2010 11:51 PM dwise1 has not replied

IchiBan
Member (Idle past 4937 days)
Posts: 88
Joined: 07-07-2008


Message 315 of 468 (553674)
04-04-2010 4:21 PM


Camel's Noses, Trojan Horses, and Cultural Aggression)
A certain evolutionist {Coyote} suggests that he is a scientist and his appeals to science as if he is an authority on science are a large part of his repertoire.
But the problem with that is he regularly makes outlandish claims such as he did on this thread (Camel's Noses, Trojan Horses, and Cultural Aggression) on the rare occasion someone as me catches him out on it, he never substantiates and is never held to task when he does not.
Now I cant force him to act any different and I cant force the mods of this forum to act any different. You want to give him a pass so be it, you want to give fellows like him a pass becuase you like what they say, cant stop you. So I'll just say my 0.02$ and be done with it.
On the latest example, Camel's Noses, Trojan Horses, and Cultural Aggression, he starts out pretty clearly suggesting that 90% of the Indian population died of from The Franciscan missionaries and their 20 missions
On Message 5 of 93 (550823) he says The Franciscan missionaries built 20+ missions along the California coast to save souls, and that the death rate from those missions was close to 90%
Message 11 of 93 (550937) I correctly peg him as Another evolutionist on a crusade against Christianity.
Message 13 of 93 (550961) what he said 'was fact'
Message 29 of 93 (551071) Now that some one else has questions 'his books are at the office'
Message 31 of 93 (551073) Oh, now it is is unlikely the missionaries were the source of the diseases.
Message 33 of 93 (551080) Then finally in this post we end up with the change in population of the indigenous coastal peoples in the mission zone during the mission era (1769-1834). Quite different from where he started out at.
I guess rather than registering a second complaint I will include here his 'steaming pile' steaming pant load' yada yada yada replys
My message, I correctly pegged him as someone with an ideological agenda, and what he is doing is not science. It is my opinion that he gets a pass here because what he is saying resonates with a large segment of the members of this forum, not because it is correct, clever, or science.
What would I like to see? Truth in advertising from fellows like coyote and from the forum overall, but again I doubt that will get to far.

Replies to this message:
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