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Author Topic:   How Dawkins made me a better person
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 31 of 71 (551326)
03-22-2010 11:41 AM
Reply to: Message 30 by Den
03-22-2010 11:37 AM


Im not religious,
BS
Your posts have shown that you are a christianist troll.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

This message is a reply to:
 Message 30 by Den, posted 03-22-2010 11:37 AM Den has not replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 32 of 71 (551327)
03-22-2010 11:43 AM
Reply to: Message 30 by Den
03-22-2010 11:37 AM


You're falsly assuming that the only reason religious people donate is because of their belief in god and that if they lost their belief in god then they wouldn't donate time or money anymore.
It really makes a case as to which party has moral superiority,
People who only donate because of belief in god would be fairly low on the moral superiority scale, wouldn't they?

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 Message 30 by Den, posted 03-22-2010 11:37 AM Den has not replied

  
Dr Jack
Member
Posts: 3514
From: Immigrant in the land of Deutsch
Joined: 07-14-2003
Member Rating: 8.7


Message 33 of 71 (551328)
03-22-2010 11:50 AM
Reply to: Message 30 by Den
03-22-2010 11:37 AM


It really makes a case as to which party has moral superiority, while in judging individuals there may not be an arguement, but as an institution it is obvious as daylight as to who leads this race.
Let's see on the religious side we have:
* Institutional cover ups of sexual abuse of children
* The promotion of bigotry against homosexuals
* The promotion of inequality of the sexes
* The deaths of millions due to the rejection of effective means of safe sex
* The supression of women's reproductive rights
* The promotion of sexual repression
Yeah, the religious institutions sure have that moral high ground.

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 Message 30 by Den, posted 03-22-2010 11:37 AM Den has not replied

  
Den
Member (Idle past 5101 days)
Posts: 36
From: Australia
Joined: 03-21-2010


Message 34 of 71 (551330)
03-22-2010 11:57 AM


quote:
BS
Your posts have shown that you are a christianist troll."
Oh you caught me, damn! So let me guess that your one of these people who labels anyone who challenges Atheism and Evolution as Religious? Grow up kid,
Check any statistics over 30% of the worlds charity money flows through the hands of Religious organisations, its a big thing to replace if you bring it down. It seems Athiests have not considered that, yeah just pass it all onto one of the secular charities, I'm sure its just that simple.
quote:
Let's see on the religious side we have:
* Institutional cover ups of sexual abuse of children
* The promotion of bigotry against homosexuals
* The promotion of inequality of the sexes
* The deaths of millions due to the rejection of effective means of safe sex
* The supression of women's reproductive rights
* The promotion of sexual repression
Yeah, the religious institutions sure have that moral high ground.
I think if you looked into any instution you will find a percentage of corruption, from police, political parties to schools, should we close all them down too? Why dont we close down all political parties, I mean they are the ones who legislated everything from racism, to slavery to genocide, and there the ones who start wars these days. Lets just have one big Athiest Anarchy!
P.S. I hate condoms, putting them on has almost made me think about becoming a Christian in the past! thank God for the pill, O.K. I will thank science for it.
Edited by Den, : No reason given.

Replies to this message:
 Message 36 by Huntard, posted 03-22-2010 12:02 PM Den has not replied
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Huntard
Member (Idle past 2295 days)
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


Message 35 of 71 (551331)
03-22-2010 11:59 AM
Reply to: Message 30 by Den
03-22-2010 11:37 AM


Den writes:
I think what I am saying is being taken out of context, Im looking at things from a practical sense. Im not religious, but I respect the work many religions do in order to help the needy.
What about the works atheists do in order to help the needy?
It is irrellevant who does more - secular charities vs Religion, when the fact is that no-one is trying to destroy secular charities, on the other hand there is an Athiest movement attacking Religion with the ambition to reduce its membership and influence, prefferably irradicating it altogether.
Curiously though, these "attacks" are never aimed towards the charity organizations, unless they have some stupid prereq for helping people, like requiring them to accept the lord first.
The fact is that religious groups donate billions of dollars a year with armies of unpaid volunteers dedicated to charitable causes, what happens if you turn that tap off?
Why would it be turned off if these people become atheists? Are you saying the only reason they help people is because they believe in a god? So they don't help people because they want to help people? That makes them pretty big assholes in my book.
even slowing the tap down will have a negative effect, so my point here is that should the Athiest movement which is trying to turn the tap off accept any responsibility for the consequences of this situation should it occur?
The "atheist movement" is not trying to turn off the tap. It is trying to make people think more rationally, or at least try to stop them from pushing their religious views on others.
I mean every person that the athiest movement convinces to leave religion, makes one less person donating their time and money towards the charitable initiatives of the church, = less for charity.
Bullshit. Atheists donate plenty of money to charities. It would perhaps not go to christian charities, but it would go to secular ones instead. Ergo, there's just as much money.
Lets assume that all the people who leave the church commit the same donations to secular charities instead(unlikely, but a percentage probably would),
Why is this unlikely?
what about the lost volunteers?
They can start work at the secular organisations.
ime is just as important, this you cant get back once these people have turned Athiest. Athiesm does not have intiatives mobilising people to donate their time to charitable causes the last time I checked.
Of course, atheism doesn't say anything at all about charity. Now, atheists however, do participate in charity, and quite often organize things for a charitable cause as well.
It really makes a case as to which party has moral superiority
Athesits, for they help people because they want to help people, not because they believe in a god.
but as an institution it is obvious as daylight as to who leads this race.
Since atheism isn't an institution, I don;t see anything to compare here.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 30 by Den, posted 03-22-2010 11:37 AM Den has not replied

  
Huntard
Member (Idle past 2295 days)
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


Message 36 of 71 (551332)
03-22-2010 12:02 PM
Reply to: Message 34 by Den
03-22-2010 11:57 AM


Den writes:
Check any statistics over 30% of the worlds charity money flows through the hands of Religious organisations
Meaning 70% doesn't. Now, who does more for charity, religious organizations, or non-religious organisations? So, wouldn;t all atheists converting to religion do much more harm, for all non-religious organisations would cease to exist, as per your own logic?

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 Message 34 by Den, posted 03-22-2010 11:57 AM Den has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 37 of 71 (551334)
03-22-2010 12:10 PM
Reply to: Message 34 by Den
03-22-2010 11:57 AM


Logic escapes you I see
Check any statistics over 30% of the worlds charity money flows through the hands of Religious organisations
So 70% flows through what? Come on I know you can figure it out.
its a big thing to replace if you bring it down.
Where did you learn of this worldwide atheist conspiracy?

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

This message is a reply to:
 Message 34 by Den, posted 03-22-2010 11:57 AM Den has not replied

  
Den
Member (Idle past 5101 days)
Posts: 36
From: Australia
Joined: 03-21-2010


Message 38 of 71 (551335)
03-22-2010 12:13 PM


quote:
Why would it be turned off if these people become atheists? Are you saying the only reason they help people is because they believe in a god? So they don't help people because they want to help people? That makes them pretty big assholes in my book.
Look kid, from your answers I know you have never run a business before, I run 3. You cant just get billions of people to change habits so quick, its not about morals, its all about timing and logistics. If people stop going to church and putting money in the tin then some charity has got to spend time and money getting in front of these people to squeeze the money out of them, people dont just blindly throw their money around so easy.
You actually think the person who goes to church and puts $5 bucks in the plate is gonna go out of their way to make the same donation to someone else? someone else has gotta squeeze them.
Your obviously are just thinking from your heart, not your head.

Replies to this message:
 Message 39 by Theodoric, posted 03-22-2010 12:18 PM Den has not replied
 Message 45 by Huntard, posted 03-22-2010 12:56 PM Den has not replied
 Message 46 by Apothecus, posted 03-22-2010 2:12 PM Den has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 39 of 71 (551337)
03-22-2010 12:18 PM
Reply to: Message 38 by Den
03-22-2010 12:13 PM


If people stop going to church and putting money in the tin
Do you really think collection money goes to charities? Collection money goes to run the church.
I run 3
Who gives a rats ass?
Your obviously are just thinking from your heart, not your head.
You obviously don't think.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

This message is a reply to:
 Message 38 by Den, posted 03-22-2010 12:13 PM Den has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 57 by Admin, posted 03-22-2010 7:40 PM Theodoric has replied

  
Den
Member (Idle past 5101 days)
Posts: 36
From: Australia
Joined: 03-21-2010


Message 40 of 71 (551338)
03-22-2010 12:22 PM


Wow theodirdic, not only do your words express your moral superiority, I see Atheism has taught you good manners too!
Edited by Den, : No reason given.

Replies to this message:
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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 285 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 41 of 71 (551339)
03-22-2010 12:25 PM
Reply to: Message 34 by Den
03-22-2010 11:57 AM


Oh you caught me, damn! So let me guess that your one of these people who labels anyone who challenges Atheism and Evolution as Religious? Grow up kid,
But you are, in fact, religious. It's not a "label" that anyone's sticking on you, you do in fact have a religion. Saying so is not a prejudice, it's a fact.
Check any statistics over 30% of the worlds charity money flows through the hands of Religious organisations,
Or flows into the hands of religious institutions. If I don't want to contribute to buying some televangelist his own private jet, does that make me a bad person?
I give to charity in order to feed the hungry and heal the sick. Is that OK with you?
... its a big thing to replace if you bring it down. It seems Athiests have not considered that, yeah just pass it all onto one of the secular charities, I'm sure its just that simple.
You know, saying something in a sarcastic tone doesn't make it untrue. Yes, it is that simple.
Yes, let us provide medicine to the sick and food to the hungry. And let us do so in such a way that not one single cent of our money goes towards supporting Pat Robertson's multimillionaire playboy lifestyle.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 34 by Den, posted 03-22-2010 11:57 AM Den has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 42 of 71 (551341)
03-22-2010 12:28 PM
Reply to: Message 40 by Den
03-22-2010 12:22 PM


care to reply to the points?
You have anything to counter about collection plates?

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

This message is a reply to:
 Message 40 by Den, posted 03-22-2010 12:22 PM Den has not replied

  
hooah212002
Member (Idle past 802 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 43 of 71 (551342)
03-22-2010 12:31 PM



"Some people think God is an outsized, light-skinned male with a long white beard, sitting on a throne somewhere up there in the sky, busily tallying the fall of every sparrow. Othersfor example Baruch Spinoza and Albert Einsteinconsidered God to be essentially the sum total of the physical laws which describe the universe. I do not know of any compelling evidence for anthropomorphic patriarchs controlling human destiny from some hidden celestial vantage point, but it would be madness to deny the existence of physical laws."-Carl Sagan
"Show me where Christ said "Love thy fellow man, except for the gay ones." Gay people, too, are made in my God's image. I would never worship a homophobic God." -Desmond Tutu

Replies to this message:
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Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9076
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 44 of 71 (551343)
03-22-2010 12:32 PM
Reply to: Message 43 by hooah212002
03-22-2010 12:31 PM


You are correct
Feeding from me is done

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

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 Message 43 by hooah212002, posted 03-22-2010 12:31 PM hooah212002 has seen this message but not replied

  
Huntard
Member (Idle past 2295 days)
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


Message 45 of 71 (551350)
03-22-2010 12:56 PM
Reply to: Message 38 by Den
03-22-2010 12:13 PM


Den writes:
Look kid, from your answers I know you have never run a business before, I run 3.
And you'd be wrong.
You cant just get billions of people to change habits so quick...
According to you they can. From one moment to another, you say, when people become atheists, they stop caring about charity. I in fact claim they won't change much at all, apart from their belief in gods.
...its not about morals...
Then why did you bring them up?
...its all about timing and logistics.
What timing and logistics, the infrastructure is already there.
If people stop going to church and putting money in the tin ...
The money used to run the church, you mean?
then some charity has got to spend time and money getting in front of these people to squeeze the money out of them, people dont just blindly throw their money around so easy.
So, all the atheists giving money to charity (which accounts for 70%, according to your numbers) are just blindly throwing their money about?
You actually think the person who goes to church and puts $5 bucks in the plate is gonna go out of their way to make the same donation to someone else?
I think the person going to church gives money to charity regardless of him giving money to help run the church.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 38 by Den, posted 03-22-2010 12:13 PM Den has not replied

  
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