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Author Topic:   Cases Troublesome for Scientists
Percy
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Posts: 22480
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.8


Message 12 of 30 (551207)
03-21-2010 7:25 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by InGodITrust
03-21-2010 3:35 PM


InGodITrust writes:
Darwin would not have arrived at his theory by contemplating the crazy plumage of some birds; rather, he had to find a way to reconcile the plumage with his theory.
"Crazy plumage of some birds" is one of the pieces of evidence Darwin used to support his theory in Origin of Species. This is from the section on sexual selection:
Darwin writes:
The rock-thrush of Guiana, birds of Paradise, and some others, congregate; and successive males display their gorgeous plumage...
So Darwin quite obviously contemplated crazy bird plumage while formulating the theory of evolution.
InGodITrust writes:
I wonder if, starting with natural selection as a given, there are cases in which scientists struggle for an explanation that fits in.
Natural selection is what produces adaptation, so you're seeking characteristics for which evolution has produced reduced overall adaptation. I can't think of any such characteristics off the top of my head, but there must be some, and scientists probably wouldn't try to explain them using natural selection. I think it was WK who already mentioned a couple other factors that contribute to the path of evolution, like genetic drift and pleiotropy.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by InGodITrust, posted 03-21-2010 3:35 PM InGodITrust has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 13 by pandion, posted 03-22-2010 12:54 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22480
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.8


Message 20 of 30 (551458)
03-22-2010 7:51 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by InGodITrust
03-22-2010 5:21 PM


InGodITrust writes:
I still believe that it is accurate to say that Darwin did not come to the more general concept of natural selection by first contemplating sexual selection with ornaments. Maybe I can find some better references to back this up when I get a chance.
Aren't you wondering a bit far afield from your own topic? You're looking for examples in nature that are difficult for evolution by natural selection to explain, remember?
For Darwin, sexual selection was just one type of natural selection. That's why in Origins the section on sexual selection appears in the chapter on natural selection. If you're sincerely interested in whether Darwin recognized sexual selection before or after natural selection then that's a topic for another thread.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by InGodITrust, posted 03-22-2010 5:21 PM InGodITrust has not replied

  
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