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Author Topic:   Gun Control & 2nd Amendment
Taq
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Joined: 03-06-2009
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Message 19 of 218 (550440)
03-15-2010 3:36 PM


I've noticed that in recent years (in the US) there is a movement away from gun control to gun convictions. As an example, if you are caught selling a kilo of coke you will get 2 years. If you are caught selling a kilo of coke AND carrying a concealed weapon you will get 5 years. Gun control has been and is ineffective so lawmakers seem to have shifted from control to use.
Also, if most people were honest about it they would say that they own firearms because they like firearms. I'll be the first to admit that shooting guns is fun. A gun enthusiast is enthusiastic about GUNS, not home protection. You don't need an arsenal of 15 handguns and assorted rifles to protect your home, and yet I know many people that would consider such an arsenal "a good start". Of all the ammo sold across the US how many rounds are actually fired at the target the ammo was designed for? Maybe 0.1%? Do you fire off more shots killing deer or "sighting in the rifle" (code for "I like to shoot guns")?
What the US has is a society enamored with their firearms.

  
Taq
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Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.4


Message 40 of 218 (550584)
03-16-2010 2:23 PM
Reply to: Message 30 by Hyroglyphx
03-15-2010 10:09 PM


Re: Bloody revolution
Quite simply I am saying that there is a checks and balances system between the People and Government.
Isn't that called "Election Day"?

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Taq
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Posts: 10035
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.4


(1)
Message 52 of 218 (550680)
03-17-2010 9:51 AM
Reply to: Message 50 by Peepul
03-17-2010 9:11 AM


Re: Guns don't make you safer.
As an outsider (a UK person) it's clear the US discussion about guns touches a deep cultural nerve, one that doesn't exist here. It's tied up with the question of individual freedom in a way that isn't the case in the UK.
I think the answer can be found in our history. From the very start colonists needed "protection" from indigenous populations, and it remained that way until the late 1800's. For roughly 250 years those on the fringes of settlements were under constant threat.
My father became interested in our family history a while back. He actually found journals written by distant relatives as they crossed the great plains towards Kansas. There were more than one story of indian attacks. Many of my distant family were killed by indians making the move west. The threat from fellow americans was just as great during both the gold rush and cattle wars of the mid 1800's. There were vast stretches of land with no police, no government presence. You literally settled things yourself, and it didn't always turn out well.
On top of this, you also had immigrants who had emigrated from very tough conditions. A good example is the Scotch-Irish that settled in the hill country of West Virginia. These were people of Scottish descent who had been given land in Ireland in an attempt to gain a foothold in Ireland. They were hated by the Irish for generations and forced out of Ireland. They couldn't go back to Scotland and so they came here. Since then they have always been dispropotionately poor with little promise outside of coal mining. This has led to a community that is fiercly independent. Well, I don't know if independent is the right word here, it's tough to explain.
In the end, the real difference here is the difference in history.

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Taq
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Posts: 10035
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.4


Message 54 of 218 (550687)
03-17-2010 10:53 AM
Reply to: Message 53 by dronestar
03-17-2010 10:48 AM


Re: Guns don't make you safer.
Umm, something about your phrasing of words bothers me. But it SEEMS you might have it backwards:
If your/my/others ancestors didn't encroach/trespass/steal land from the indians, then maybe the indians wouldn't have attacked.
The quotes around protection were meant to imply sarcasm. Sorry if that didn't come across.
If the early colonists were not armed there probably wouldn't be europeans here now. However, europeans could have made a bundle selling guns to warring native americans so we would probably still be talking about guns in america.

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Taq
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Posts: 10035
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.4


Message 56 of 218 (550694)
03-17-2010 11:09 AM
Reply to: Message 55 by dronestar
03-17-2010 11:03 AM


Re: Guns don't make you safer.
Again, when you invade another territory/nation, it makes sense to bring weapons. That was the mentality of violent people who colonized the new world. I think we agree here, yes?
Yes. It may also explain why there is a different mentality between Europeans and Americans when it comes to guns.

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Taq
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Posts: 10035
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.4


Message 58 of 218 (550702)
03-17-2010 12:15 PM
Reply to: Message 57 by dronestar
03-17-2010 11:24 AM


Re: Guns don't make you safer.
Are you saying that the early American colonists who came from Europe were particularly more violent than other non-invading Europeans. And because they were ALREADY pre-disposed to violence, it then nurtured a violent american society?
What I am saying is that modern American views of gun ownership has been strongly influenced by American history. I am not saying that the Europeans who came to America were more violent than those who stayed in Europe. This history includes:
1. a 250 year guerilla war between invading Europeans and the indigenous population.
2. a lack of police and government presence in much of the new frontiers leading to unfettered violence between europeans.
Guns were truly necessary for home security at one time from very real threats. I don't think this is true of the UK during the same time period.
Can we compare or contrast this notion to Australia? They were particularly settled by violent European criminals. What type of society does australia have now, compared to the USA? Is this a fair comparison?
I really don't know what the Aussie attitude is towards guns. Anyone want to comment?
Edited by Taq, : No reason given.

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Taq
Member
Posts: 10035
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.4


Message 152 of 218 (551707)
03-23-2010 9:23 PM
Reply to: Message 148 by ICANT
03-23-2010 7:34 PM


Re: Guns
That means they could fire the entire bunch if they so desired or they can limit everything that they can do.
They have let Washington bully them around and it is time to put a stop to it.
But it's only bullying if you disagree with the legislation, right?

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Taq
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Posts: 10035
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.4


Message 160 of 218 (551801)
03-24-2010 9:49 AM
Reply to: Message 158 by ICANT
03-24-2010 2:43 AM


Then why do they pass laws that the majority of the people don't want?
Why do a majority of voters elect them to office?
Our founding fathers were men who believed in God and they set our government up according to Scriptural principals.
Can you please show how the right to bear arms is a scriptural principle?
This is what Thomas Jefferson had to say about our rights and where they come from.
He didn't say that they came from your god, nor your Bible. Try again. Jefferson was a Deist, not a christian.

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Taq
Member
Posts: 10035
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 5.4


Message 164 of 218 (551808)
03-24-2010 10:39 AM
Reply to: Message 161 by Hyroglyphx
03-24-2010 10:11 AM


Re: Guns
It all depends upon the circumstances involved and by what capacity the Feds are operating under. When living in California my wife had a medical marijuana card and the Feds didn't infringe her rights. It really depends on what the shops are doing.
This is a case of selective enforcement. The Feds have limited manpower and they do not want to alienate the public at large which is why they have decided to focus on the big growers.

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