Marxism

You said: Now you say: Well you can't have it both ways. Either you have a government that works for the people in any manner that the people need it - to include helping those people who are less fortunate. Or, you don't have a government at all and the social economical needs are handled by the people of the community themselves.I'd be curious to know the passages(?) in the Bible that advocate government and the one that Jesus says he would not want government to help people. Only because it seems like a contradiction to me.- Oni

Sure I like Alice Cooper... until he starts singing that is... I'm metal-phobic.For the record, this is what Republicans look like when they try to get down. Painful.Mutate and Survive

Actually I think this is funnier-Mimi Miyagi, porn star. Republican candidate for governor of Nevada.How's them "family values" for you?Edited by Theodoric, : added last line

Well so am I. To put this into practical terms are you really disputing that the most wealthy are more likely to support the right wing rather than left wing party in any given democracy? I would have thought this was all but indisputable? But then you say this: How is this not contradicting your previous statement? Which we have a natural inclination to do as well. As long as we identify those who are unfortunate as being part of our community in some way. Are you saying that Jesus would have no opinion on how we should treat each other and organise ourselves in order to achieve that aim?

Government has the job of restraining criminal activity and providing services that are shared by all, not taking care of us.I wish I could find things in the Bible easily but it's hard to remember the key word to search on. When I find them I'll get back to you. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

I'm aware of lots of wealthy leftists. Otherwise I do not have an opinion about how many do what. I have absolutely NO idea how it IS contradicting it. Pretty much, yes. He doesn't address the level of worldly government except to say render unto Caesar that which is Caesar's.If we each obeyed Him we'd come up with the best system but that isn't going to happen until He returns. In fact, consulting Him IS the best way to go about this.Stealing isn't.

Contributing to the same system that gave you the opportunities that you made the most of so that others can benefit from those same opportunities isn't stealing now is it. It is payback. No. But with no opportunity you have no freedom. Regardless of what the law says you can freely do with the money you don't actually have. If not coerced by law it is probably fair to say that tax revenues would be non-existent and there would be no national infrastructure of any sort whatsoever. Is that really a good idea? What do you suggest instead? Having your educational and job opportunities almost entirely dictated by your starting point in life leads to a wealth elite whose priveliged position in life has nothing to do with ability or hardwork and an underclass of poor whose prospects are equally unrelated to ability or willingness to work. Is that just? This is all about social justice. That is what equalising opportunity is about.And before you cite the anecdote of the ghetto-kid-done-good think about how many counter-examples there are for everyone of those examples. Such examples stand out exactly because they are the exception.

Taxes are not stealing. Taxes are what our elected representatives have decided to do to raise money for the function of government. If you do not agree with that you need to get different reps. Calling taxes stealing does not make it stealing.What happens when Federal taxes drop or state taxes drop. People suffer, the infrastructure goes to hell and local taxes are raised.Are you familiar with the history of countries with aristocracies, or the US before the implementation of progressive taxation? The wealthy were extremely wealthy,. They were a very small percentage of the population. There was an enormous lower class(economically0 and under class. People died in the streets. Ever hear of debtors prisons, sharecroppers, indentured servants? Is this the world you idealize?The average life span of people in the western world has risen dramatically in the last 100 years. Why? Social spending by governments. Do you think the robber barons cared about anyone else but themselves. The only thing that helped rein them in was government regulations and taxation. Taxation is not stealing. Stealing is something that is outside the law. Taxes are lawful. Again you spout talking points and no facts.Show me an illegal tax in the United States. Prove to me it is stealing.

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Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

So you don't think that the wealthy generally vote for the party preaching the lowest taxes? You have no opinion or thought on that? You promote one political system on the basis that it utilises greed and decry another on the bais that you think it denies greed whilst simultaeaously saying that the role of greed plays no role whatsoever in your thinking. You don't think this is contradictory at all? So Jesus was a tax advocate then Edited by Straggler, : No reason given.

I have no problem with CONTRIBUTING, I have a problem with having it TAKEN from people. VOLUNTARY VOLUNTARY VOLUNTARY FREEDOM FREEDOM FREEDOM. You have a different kind of freedom in mind. That's what's happened over the centuries, basic freedom has been redefined. It's come to mean RIGHTS, not freedom. Freedom doesn't mean anyone has a RIGHT to any particular life situation. None of us asks to be born. TAXES are necessary, I've not once said a word against taxes. But taxes that are disproportionate and taxes that are just taking from some to give to others are wrong. And here we are back at the rationalization for theft and coercion. Lots of solid charities. People being encouraged to give to educational scholarships, to medical support funds, to community projects that benefit all. Anything that creates that sense of community you all talk about. Leave government out of it. STEALING IS NOT THE RIGHT SOLUTION. STEALING AND COERCION ARE NOT THE SOLUTION.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

All taxes take from some to give to others. Do you use all the services that your municipal taxes pay for? Do you drive on every state funded road? How about every federally funded infrastructure project?

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It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds
soon I discovered that this rock thing was true
Jerry Lee Lewis was the devil
Jesus was an architect previous to his career as a prophet
All of a sudden i found myself in love with the world
And so there was only one thing I could do
Was ding a ding dang my dang along ling long - Jesus Built my Hotrod Ministry
Live every week like it's Shark Week! - Tracey Jordan
Just a monkey in a long line of kings. - Matthew Good
If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist! - Get Your War On
*not an actual doctor

UTILIZES? No, not UTILIZES. Simply doesn't try to force people to give against their will, recognizing we're all the same in this way. I'm not interested in either UTILIZING OR DENYING greed. I think taht whole analysis of society is utterly stupid and wrongheaded and moralistically tyrannical. I just think people SHOULD BE LEFT ALONE except where their actions harm others.

Oh for crying out loud.Do I really have to deal with this level of hairsplitting?Aagh.Maybe later.You leftists are going to drive me batty.Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

OK. Lets abolish all tax laws and make all contributions voluntary. What do you think the result of that would be? Well you did above. Taxes are stealing no?
What about taxes in order to achieve higher levels of national health, education, etc. etc? Taxes that invest in the opportunities afforded to kids who would otherwise not have them purely by accident of birth? I am not advocating the right to any particular life situation. I am advocating measures to equalise opportunity so that those who are willing and able to achieve their potential can actually do so regardless of where they start in life. Investment in high quality public education for example.Surely maximising the opportunity and potential of all in society is ultimately of benefit to everyone in that society? No? Genuinely rewarding hard work and ability no matter where one starts in life. That is the aim. No?Edited by Straggler, : No reason given.

Faith what tax system are you proposing? You call taxes stealing from people against their will in one breath and then say you recognise taxes as necessary in the next.What tax system are you advocating that doesn't involve requiring people to contribute against their will?