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Author | Topic: Intermediates | |||||||||||||||||||||||
jimgerard Junior Member (Idle past 5159 days) Posts: 2 From: ames, iowa, U.S. Joined: |
AndrewPD writes:
And here’s how the future of this conversation is going to go: Evolutionists: Chimpanzees fit between humans and gorillas. Andrew: There is no intermediate between chimpanzees and humans. Evolutionists: Bonobos fit between humans and chimpanzees. Andrew: There is no intermediate between bonobos and humans. etc.. I loved most of your post, especially the "Evolution isn't like leggos" but I don't understand this, are you being facetious? There certainly would be no 'link' between humans and gorillas or gorillas and chimps, we didn't evolve from them they aren't ancestral but fellow modern species, right?
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chrisMuriel Junior Member (Idle past 5124 days) Posts: 2 Joined: |
I believe Andrew has a point here. If evolution indeed happened or is still happening, there would be intermediates still extant. To say that its the chimp or the gorilla is going off the cuff. I am also very uncomfortable calling Neandertahls, cro-magnon, australopothicus, etc. the "ancestors of man." Except for darwinians, they could have been altogether different species. I am more open to the idea of ET experiements on earth, which might be the "stages" of evolution that we see, and present a more feasible theory for the origin of life than TOE.
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Huntard Member (Idle past 2322 days) Posts: 2870 From: Limburg, The Netherlands Joined: |
Hello Chris, and welcome to EvC! Never had the pleasure to converse with a necromancer here before.
chrisMuriel writes:
And they are, every species alive is an intermediate between itself and it's offspring.
If evolution indeed happened or is still happening, there would be intermediates still extant. I am also very uncomfortable calling Neandertahls, cro-magnon, australopothicus, etc. the "ancestors of man."
Why? Everything so far points to them being just that.
Except for darwinians, they could have been altogether different species.
This might come as a shock to you, but they are altogether different species. Even to "darwinians".
I am more open to the idea of ET experiements on earth, which might be the "stages" of evolution that we see...
Ok, any evidence?
...and present a more feasible theory for the origin of life than TOE.
The theory of evolution isn't about the origin of life.
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1432 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
Welcome to the fray, chrisMuriel.
If evolution indeed happened or is still happening, there would be intermediates still extant. It has, it is, there are. Evolution is the change in frequency of hereditary traits in breeding populations from generation to generation. This has been observed in the world around us in all living species. This is fact. We also see the same patterns in the fossil record, such as the record for Pelycodus: A Smooth Fossil Transition: Pelycodus
quote: Note that every level is intermediate between the one below and the one above -- every fossil in that series is an intermediate.
To say that its the chimp or the gorilla is going off the cuff. I am also very uncomfortable calling Neandertahls, cro-magnon, australopothicus, etc. the "ancestors of man." Except for darwinians, they could have been altogether different species. I am more open to the idea of ET experiements on earth, which might be the "stages" of evolution that we see, and present a more feasible theory for the origin of life than TOE. Curiously what you are comfortable with, and what your opinion is on evolution, etc, are both completely incapable of altering reality in any way. Enjoy.
... as you are new here, some posting tips: type [qs]quotes are easy[/qs] and it becomes:
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chrisMuriel Junior Member (Idle past 5124 days) Posts: 2 Joined: |
Hey RAZD, Thanks!
I checked the link you posted, but i don't know how much of it is objective evidence and how much is speculation. You may check this link here to see exactly what i mean: http://paleontology.suite101.com/...ry_dinosaurs_and_fossils
Curiously what you are comfortable with, and what your opinion is on evolution, etc, are both completely incapable of altering reality in any way.
One man's reality is another man's hoax. That's all I can say.
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1432 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
Hi chrisMuriel, you're welcome.
I checked the link you posted, but i don't know how much of it is objective evidence and how much is speculation. Always a good thing to recognize when you are not an expert in a field.
You may check this link here to see exactly what i mean: http://paleontology.suite101.com/...ry_dinosaurs_and_fossils I'm curious why you felt you needed to link to an article that discusses a paper, rather than the paper itself, especially as the link is provided and the whole paper is online:
quote: Especially as your article seems to make conclusions not found in the actual paper, but seems to sensationalize the actual information.
One man's reality is another man's hoax. That's all I can say. Of course you must realize that a hoax is "something intended to deceive or defraud" - ie an intentional fraud committed for the purpose of fooling people. This would be like stating quotes from people that are not part of the academic paper cited as the sole reference for the article in question, while implying that they are an integral part of the paper. Perhaps you think you have a real bonafide hoax that you can list on Scientific vs Creationist Frauds and Hoaxes ... but I doubt it. Instead what you are seeing is the process of science refining knowledge based on additional information.
the actual paper:
quote: So the scientists (that are experts in their field) have refined our knowledge of dinosaurs based on new information, specifically sufficient information to show the growth transitions involved. Was the previous classification as three different species a hoax to intentionally mislead people? Or was it the best explanation available at the time from the limited information available at the time? Even assuming that it was true that 1/3 of all dinosaur species classification are actually developmental stages of other dinosaurs, does that alter evolution as the explanation for the diversity of life on this planet in any significant way? Even if we assume that 1/3 of all known fossil species is so misclassified, does that alter evolution as the explanation for the diversity of life on this planet in any significant way? Please consider, first and foremost, that the information in the article is brought to you by scientists doing science, that this is an increase in the accuracy of our knowledge, not a refutation of it, and that it in no way suggests that evolution is wrong. So thanks for bringing this article to my attention: Extreme Cranial Ontogeny in the Upper Cretaceous Dinosaur PachycephalosaurusJohn R. Horner1*, Mark B. Goodwin2 1 Museum of the Rockies, Montana State University, Bozeman, Montana, United States of America, 2 Museum of Paleontology, University of California, Berkeley, California, United States of America PLoS ONE 4(10): e7626. doi:10.1371/journal.pone.0007626 Download PDF It will be interesting to see how many creationists misrepresent this article. Enjoy. we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand Rebel American Zen Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. • • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •
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AdminSlev Member (Idle past 4668 days) Posts: 113 Joined: |
Hi chrisMuriel, welcome to EvC!
One of the forum guidelines is to not just give links as argumentation. Rather, we prefer that you present yourself the argument/fact/main points of the article/paper/commentary you want to present, and then give the link as reference. Thanks, I hope you will find it pleasant to discuss here! {For the record, the next message was spam and was deleted - Adminnemooseus} Edited by Adminnemooseus, : No reason given.
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