|
Understanding through Discussion |
|
|
Register | Sign In |
|
QuickSearch
| Thread ▼ Details |
|
|
| Author | Topic: The "Liberal" Media | |||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Huntard Member (Idle past 2317 days)  Posts: 2870 From: Limburg, The Netherlands Joined: |
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Hyroglyphx Inactive Member |
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
|
onifre Member (Idle past 2972 days)  Posts: 4854 From: Dark Side of the Moon Joined: |
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Taq Member  Posts: 10043 Joined: Member Rating: 5.3 |
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
|
DevilsAdvocate Member (Idle past 3123 days)  Posts: 1548 Joined: |
There is no Muslim influence. That he bombs soveriegn nations like Pakistan, which the US is not at war with, makes an even stronger case for his disassociation with the Muslim world. We have agreements with Afghanistan and Pakistan governments to conduct surgical missile strikes (not bombs) into Pakistan to route out the Taliban and Al-Queda insurgents. These strikes have been conducted before Obama came into office. Why is this so hard to understand. Sorry back to the topic, you are correct Hyro that Obama is not a Muslim, nor was he ever a Muslim. He was a practicing Christian who attended the Trinity United Church of Christ (close in theology and social policy to the Luthern and Episcopalian Churches) for over 20 years. You can debate whether he was a real 'Christian' ('no true Scotsman' fallicy), I could care less since I am not one. However he has always considered himself to be a Christian since early in his adult life and he married a Christian woman, Michelle Obama. Obama was raised in a non-religious home by his mother who was skeptical of organized religion. She definately was not a Muslim and neither was his birth father (whom was raised as a Muslim early in life but stoped practicing and became a non-religious and agnostic/atheist). His mother considered herself an academic, humanist and progressive in her thinking and was most likely an atheist or at best an agnostic or theist (but not a Christian). She did later marry an Indonesian, Lolo Soetro, who was studying abroad at the University of Hawaii and though was a a practicing Muslim was not devote (considering for one that he married a non-Muslim and Caucasian woman), tolerant of other religionsand certainly not a radical fundamentalist . Lolo, was well educated (had a Masters Degree in Geology) and worked for the Indonesian government and Mobil Oil as a professional geologist. Barack Obama and his family moved to Indonesia for a little under 5 years and he studied his first three years at a Catholic school in Jakarta and one year at a state run school (not a madrassa). This prestigious state-run school was founded by the Dutch colonial government in 1934 and taught students of many different religions and backgrounds. He was also involved in Boy Scouts (equivalent of our Cub Scouts in the USA) while he lived in Indonesia. Also found this interesting about the state-run school that some American's called a 'Muslim madrassa' that he attended:
Bandung Winardijanto, a former classmate writes: The girls wore miniskirts. There's no way miniskirts would be allowed at a madrassa," he said. Another photo of teachers at the school shows both males and females wearing Western-style clothing. The women are also wearing miniskirts.
This is what Obama wrote about his mother's religious views in 'Audacity of Hope' written by then Senator Obama in early 2006:
Barak Obama writes: I was not raised in a religious household. For my mother, organized religion too often dressed up closed-mindedness in the garb of piety, cruelty and oppression in the cloak of righteousness. However, in her mind, a working knowledge of the world's great religions was a necessary part of any well-rounded education. In our household the Bible, the Koran, and the Bhagavad Gita sat on the shelf alongside books of Greek and Norse and African mythology. On Easter or Christmas Day my mother might drag me to church, just as she dragged me to the Buddhist temple, the Chinese New Year celebration, the Shinto shrine, and ancient Hawaiian burial sites.In sum, my mother viewed religion through the eyes of the anthropologist; it was a phenomenon to be treated with a suitable respect, but with a suitable detachment as well. So at best you could say his mother had a typical academial Anthropological pan-religion worldview tolerant though not tied to any one religious view (which is similar to my own view about religion). Hope this gives some insight to Barak Obama's religious background and dispels the ridiculous myths that he is a Muslim. Also this is what Barak Obama himself said in a 2007 interview:
My father was from Kenya and a lot of people in his village were Muslim. He didn’t practice Islam. Truth is he wasn’t very religious. He met my mother. My mother was a Christian from Kansas, and they married and then divorced. I was raised by my mother. So, I’ve always been a Christian. The only connection I’ve had to Islam is that my grandfather on my father’s side came from that country. But I’ve never practiced Islam. Barak Obama was raised by his grandparents in Honolulu, HI since he was 10 years old. Her grandparents were Jewish by birth but they attended Methodist and Unitarian Churches when Barak lived with them. More insight in his Christian born-again experience from Chicago New-Times article from April 5, 2004 when he was still an Illinoise State Senator: Obama: I have a deep faith: Barack Obama credits his multicultural upbringing for his theological point of view. :
"Alongside my own deep personal faith, I am a follower, as well, of our civic religion," he says. "I am a big believer in the separation of church and state. I am a big believer in our constitutional structure. I mean, I'm a law professor at the University of Chicago teaching constitutional law. "I am a great admirer of our founding charter and its resolve to prevent theocracies from forming and its resolve to prevent disruptive strains of fundamentalism from taking root in this country. "I think there is an enormous danger on the part of public figures to rationalize or justify their actions by claiming God's mandate. I don't think it's healthy for public figures to wear religion on their sleeve as a means to insulate themselves from criticism, or dialogue with people who disagree with them." Still, Obama is unapologetic in saying he has a "personal relationship with Jesus Christ." As a sign of that relationship, he says, he walked down the aisle of Chicago's Trinity United Church of Christ in response to the Rev. Jeremiah Wright's altar call one Sunday morning about 16 years ago. The politician could have ended his spiritual tale right there, at the point some people might assume his life changed, when he got "saved," transformed, washed in the blood. But Obama wants to clarify what truly happened. "It wasn't an epiphany," he says of that public profession of faith. "It was much more of a gradual process for me. I know there are some people who fall out. Which is wonderful. God bless them.... I think it was just a moment to certify or publicly affirm a growing faith in me." These days, he says, he attends the 11 a.m. Sunday service at Trinity in the Brainerd neighborhood every week -- or at least as many weeks as he is able. His pastor, Wright, has become a close confidant. So how did he become a churchgoer? It began in 1985, when he came to Chicago as a $13,000-a-year community organizer, working with a number of African-American churches in the Roseland, West Pullman and Altgeld Gardens neighborhoods that were trying to deal with the devastation caused by shuttered steel plants. "I started working with both the ministers and the lay people in these churches on issues like creating job-training programs, or after-school programs for youth, or making sure that city services were fairly allocated to underserved communities," he says. "And it was in those places where I think what had been more of an intellectual view of religion deepened. "I became much more familiar with the ongoing tradition of the historic black church and its importance in the community. And the power of that culture to give people strength in very difficult circumstances, and the power of that church to give people courage against great odds. And it moved me deeply." Obama says he reads the Bible, though not as regularly as he'd like, now that he's on the campaign trail. But he does find time to pray. "It's not formal, me getting on my knees," he says. "I think I have an ongoing conversation with God.... I'm constantly asking myself questions about what I'm doing, why I am doing it. "The biggest challenge, I think, is always maintaining your moral compass." Friends and advisers, such as the Rev. Michael Pfleger, pastor of St. Sabina Roman Catholic Church in the Auburn- Gresham community on the South Side, who has known Obama for the better part of 20 years, help him keep that compass set, he says. "I always have felt in him this consciousness that, at the end of the day, with all of us, you've got to face God," Pfleger says of Obama. "Faith is key to his life, no question about it. It is central to who he is, and not just in his work in the political field, but as a man, as a black man, as a husband, as a father.... I don't think he could easily divorce his faith from who he is." Another person Obama says he seeks out for spiritual counsel is state Sen. James Meeks, who is also the pastor of Chicago's Salem Baptist Church. The day after Obama won the primary in March, he stopped by Salem for Wednesday-night Bible study. "I know that he's a person of prayer," Meeks says. "The night after the election, he was the hottest thing going from Galesburg to Rockford. He did all the TV shows, and all the morning news, but his last stop at night was for church. He came by to say thank you, and he came by for prayer." Obama admits it's not easy for politicians to talk about faith. "Part of the reason I think it's always difficult for public figures to talk about this is that the nature of politics is that you want to have everybody like you and project the best possible traits onto you," he says. "Oftentimes, that's by being as vague as possible, or appealing to the lowest common denominators. The more specific and detailed you are on issues as personal and fundamental as your faith, the more potentially dangerous it is.
Hope this sheds some light. Obama is a self-ascribed Christian in his theology not a Muslim. That does not mean I agree with his theology or his associations, I am just trying to dispel the ridiculous myth that he is a closet Muslim. Liberal Christian, progressive liberal and non-fundamentalist- yes.Practicing or closet Muslim- no. Facts don't lie. Edited by DevilsAdvocate, : No reason given. Edited by DevilsAdvocate, : No reason given. Edited by DevilsAdvocate, : No reason given. Edited by DevilsAdvocate, : No reason given. One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We're no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It is simply too painful to acknowledge -- even to ourselves -- that we've been so credulous. - Carl Sagan, The Fine Art of Baloney Detection "You can't convince a believer of anything; for their belief is not based on evidence, it's based on a deep seated need to believe." - Carl Sagan "It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring." - Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
|
DevilsAdvocate Member (Idle past 3123 days) Posts: 1548 Joined: |
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Hyroglyphx Inactive Member |
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Taq Member Posts: 10043 Joined: Member Rating: 5.3 |
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
|
DevilsAdvocate Member (Idle past 3123 days) Posts: 1548 Joined: |
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
|
DevilsAdvocate Member (Idle past 3123 days) Posts: 1548 Joined: |
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
|
DevilsAdvocate Member (Idle past 3123 days) Posts: 1548 Joined: |
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
|
DC85 Member  Posts: 876 From: Richmond, Virginia USA Joined: |
So you think a 100% pull out at this time would solve all the problems over there? Let the Taliban and Al-Queda take Afghanistan and parts of Pakistan back over? What have we really done about it other then enrage the other side of the conflict? All-Queda is growing and spreading to other parts of the world... It's deemed as a Holy War they deem as absolute God inspired law. Reasoning with most of them will be like reasoning with many of the creationists we get one this board. They deal in Absolutes. Al-Queda isn't a Government force we can fight and over power like the Nazi's of Germany. It's everywhere. What is your solution? We are off topic yet again.... 
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Hyroglyphx Inactive Member |
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
|
DevilsAdvocate Member (Idle past 3123 days) Posts: 1548 Joined: |
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Hyroglyphx Inactive Member |
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
|
|
Do Nothing Button
Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved
™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024
