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Author Topic:   The Bible's Flat Earth
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 459 of 473 (554091)
04-06-2010 12:24 PM
Reply to: Message 457 by purpledawn
04-06-2010 12:05 PM


Re: Update on Severian
Severian was using Ecclesiastes 1:5-6 to support his position of the trek behind the curtain.
Here's the KJV:
quote:
Ecclesiastes 1
1The words of the Preacher, the son of David, king in Jerusalem.
2Vanity of vanities, saith the Preacher, vanity of vanities; all is vanity.
3What profit hath a man of all his labour which he taketh under the sun?
4One generation passeth away, and another generation cometh: but the earth abideth for ever.
5The sun also ariseth, and the sun goeth down, and hasteth to his place where he arose.
6The wind goeth toward the south, and turneth about unto the north; it whirleth about continually, and the wind returneth again according to his circuits.
7All the rivers run into the sea; yet the sea is not full; unto the place from whence the rivers come, thither they return again.
8All things are full of labour; man cannot utter it: the eye is not satisfied with seeing, nor the ear filled with hearing.
9The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.
10Is there any thing whereof it may be said, See, this is new? it hath been already of old time, which was before us.
11There is no remembrance of former things; neither shall there be any remembrance of things that are to come with those that shall come after.
I don't see that that scripture supports what he's saying. The scripture doesn't really imply how the sun got back to the "starting point".
Yeah, there's just not much there. Although, its odd that the sun quickly goes back to where it started. The writer obviouly though the sun went over the earth and did not think that the path it took during the night was the same length as the day.
Severian says:
quote:
As it sets in the extremity of the west, it must necessarily traverse during the night the west, north, all of the east, to arrive on the edge of the south; from which inevitably follows the length of the night.
And this doesn't really fit with what I'm getting from Ecclesiases. So, I'm with you on the lack of scirptural support.
By then the Greeks knew the earth was spherical. Was Severian really proposing that the earth wasn't spherical or just that he didn't agree about the path of the sun and the stars?
I don't know. It seems like he was supporting the dome-and-disc idea though. I don't think we can say from just his interpretation of Ecc 1:5-6, but have to take the whole idea into account.
At that point they still thought the earth was the center. Even though the Greeks knew the planet was spherical, did they understand what was on the "underside" or did they view all mankind on the "topside"?
Could Severian and his people view a spherical earth, but the "tent" was only on the top?
Yeah, I could see it going either way. I just don't have enough info to be confident in one or the other.
Let me know what else you find.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 457 by purpledawn, posted 04-06-2010 12:05 PM purpledawn has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 463 by purpledawn, posted 04-06-2010 5:08 PM New Cat's Eye has not replied
 Message 471 by purpledawn, posted 04-11-2010 7:53 AM New Cat's Eye has replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 460 of 473 (554092)
04-06-2010 12:27 PM
Reply to: Message 458 by rockondon
04-06-2010 12:10 PM


Re: Flat Ground or Flat Planet
I'm pretty good at admitting errors when I'm shown them. You haven't shown me an error yet.
Sure I have:
Purpledawn: The Hebrew word erets does not refer to the planet Earth.
erets:
a. earth
1) whole earth (as opposed to a part)
2) earth (as opposed to heaven)
3) earth (inhabitants)
'erets Meaning in Bible - Old Testament Hebrew Lexicon - New American Standard
Therefore, you were in error. The word 'erets' has several different meanings, one of which is the earth.
Even as referring to the entire earth, it cannot be referring to a planet (as in flying through space like we understand it today).

This message is a reply to:
 Message 458 by rockondon, posted 04-06-2010 12:10 PM rockondon has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 461 by rockondon, posted 04-06-2010 12:40 PM New Cat's Eye has not replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 469 of 473 (554625)
04-09-2010 10:55 AM
Reply to: Message 467 by rockondon
04-08-2010 9:39 PM


enitre earth != planet
I'll provide some more sources that agree that 'erets' does indeed include the planet Earth as one of its meanings for EVC's more objective members to read.
Once again, I'll point out that it is impossible for the writers to have the concept of a planet.
If you were right about erets, Genesis 1:1 would read that "God made the heavens and some ground." Doesn't quite have that same ring to it hey?
We all agree that it is referring to the earth in its entirety.
You're equating that with the concept of a planet and we're saying that it could not be that.
I think its absurd to think that the "whole earth" and "earth as opposed to heaven" is merely refering to the ground and not the planet.
We're not saying its "merely refering to the ground", as we've ackowledge it can refer to the entire earth, we're saying that it cannot be referring to a planet.
I think you're equating 'entire earth' with planet, and 'not planet' with not the entire earth. Both of those are wrong. 'Not planet' can still be the entire earth, and entire earth could not have been refering to the conept of a planet.
Do you still want to pretend erets never refers to the planet earth?
Will you ackowledge that the writers were incapable of having the concept of a planet and that we accept it referring to the entire earth while not being the concept of a planet?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 467 by rockondon, posted 04-08-2010 9:39 PM rockondon has not replied

  
New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


Message 472 of 473 (555130)
04-12-2010 10:29 AM
Reply to: Message 471 by purpledawn
04-11-2010 7:53 AM


Re: Globe of Crates
That's very interesting, PD. Thanks for posting it.
I'll read into it further later.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 471 by purpledawn, posted 04-11-2010 7:53 AM purpledawn has not replied

  
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