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Author Topic:   Safety and Effectiveness of Herbs and Pharmaceuticals
Coragyps
Member (Idle past 734 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


(1)
Message 78 of 209 (554375)
04-07-2010 10:36 PM
Reply to: Message 77 by Granny Magda
04-07-2010 10:15 PM


Re: Side Effects
that herbal medicines must be treated just as any other chemical,
GM, you have highlighted one of my pet peeves. I'm a chemist by trade (in the American sense, not the British sense of "the chemist's shop") and it irritates the crap out of me that herbal fans go on about how their wares "contain no chemicals." Of freakin' course they contain chemicals! They are made up entirely of chemicals! And "all-natural, organic" tetrodotoxin will kill you just as dead as anything I can whip up in an Erlenmeyer flask, too.
At the base, it's another piece of anti-science similar to creationism. Based on different superstitions, but still on anti-facts.

This message is a reply to:
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Coragyps
Member (Idle past 734 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 112 of 209 (554804)
04-10-2010 9:33 AM
Reply to: Message 111 by Buzsaw
04-10-2010 9:13 AM


Re: Unfair definition
Echinacea or astragalus , for example, either as as leaves or as compressed pills, are no more a drug than celery.
So what are you saying here, Buz? That they do no more for your health than celery does? Or that they contain only all-natural ingredients but none of those nasty chemicals!!1!?
Atropine or scopolamine that I can make in my lab is identically as potent and dangerous as that you can get from Jimsonweed. The ONLY difference is that the Jimsonweed synthesizes it in plant cells, and I would do it in expensive flasks or in discarded Mason jars.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 111 by Buzsaw, posted 04-10-2010 9:13 AM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 122 by Buzsaw, posted 04-10-2010 3:32 PM Coragyps has replied

  
Coragyps
Member (Idle past 734 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 124 of 209 (554871)
04-10-2010 4:21 PM
Reply to: Message 122 by Buzsaw
04-10-2010 3:32 PM


Re: Unfair definition
whereas the majority of pharms prescribed have some possible harmful side effects, due to the fact that they are largly manufactured compounds of chemicals and/or reconstituted plant compounds, un-natural to human consumption.
So if it's manufactured, it's "un-natural for human consumption?" Pressing dried leaves into a pill seems pretty "un-natural" too, Buz. Where do you draw the line? Shouldn't you grow the stuff yourself without a Rototiller, so your product is more "natural?" Or at least use a wood-burning, steam-powered Rototiller?
And who tests the "few tested chemicals" to show they have no detrimental effects? Dr Whitaker? Where does he publish his results so that I can read them?
Anecdote does not equal evidence.
And I'm happy for you that your health is so good.

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Coragyps
Member (Idle past 734 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 140 of 209 (554985)
04-11-2010 11:28 AM
Reply to: Message 132 by Buzsaw
04-10-2010 9:32 PM


Re: FDA - Labeling
When you begin reading about the maimed and dead due to the naturals....
I have anecdotes, too, Buz. Lidia was a good friend of my wife's who was an Herbalife saleswoman. She treated the lump in her breast with the stuff that Herbalife sells, and with prayer, until it was Stage 4. She died last year at 45 years of age.
If people don't mention that they take "naturals," it's a little harder to write about the ones that die from them, particularly when they die from the baseless hope that they can fix a serious ailment like cancer with some flower buds that haven't had even rudimentary quality control run on their potency. Dead from false hope is just as dead as dead from some rare side effect.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 132 by Buzsaw, posted 04-10-2010 9:32 PM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 144 by Buzsaw, posted 04-12-2010 8:27 AM Coragyps has replied

  
Coragyps
Member (Idle past 734 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 146 of 209 (555230)
04-12-2010 6:31 PM
Reply to: Message 144 by Buzsaw
04-12-2010 8:27 AM


Re: FDA - Labeling
Treating breast cancer with herbalife and prayer is nowhere advocated by any sensible wholistic health regime.
I'm sure it isn't. But the herbal woo goddam sure sucked Lidia in and killed her.
And it's "holistic." Or, most of the time, "quackery."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 144 by Buzsaw, posted 04-12-2010 8:27 AM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 152 by Buzsaw, posted 04-13-2010 8:28 AM Coragyps has not replied

  
Coragyps
Member (Idle past 734 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 147 of 209 (555232)
04-12-2010 6:32 PM
Reply to: Message 144 by Buzsaw
04-12-2010 8:27 AM


Re: FDA - Labeling
The reason, imo, that God does not, more often, heal cancer...
He heals amputees even less often. Is that diet and lifestyle, too?

"The wretched world lies now under the tyranny of foolishness; things are believed by Christians of such absurdity as no one ever could aforetime induce the heathen to believe." - Agobard of Lyons, ca. 830 AD

This message is a reply to:
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Coragyps
Member (Idle past 734 days)
Posts: 5553
From: Snyder, Texas, USA
Joined: 11-12-2002


Message 205 of 209 (558088)
04-29-2010 6:51 PM
Reply to: Message 203 by Granny Magda
04-29-2010 4:49 PM


Re: Alt-Med Guru Gets a Taste of His Own Medicine
I thought the possibility of vitamin D poisoning was quite well known.
That's why you should beware of eating polar bear liver.
Well, one of a host of reasons you should.

This message is a reply to:
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