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Author Topic:   Creation, Evolution, and faith
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 285 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 3 of 456 (552439)
03-29-2010 6:53 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Flyer75
03-28-2010 7:04 PM


I believe the above can be said for the evolutionist.
Your belief is wrong.
When I say evolutionist, I am talking about the evolutionist who believes in no ID or God who started the process, but the scientist who believes that natural selection is the sole catalyst in the process from the start of nothing, to what we see now.
So when you say "evolutionist" you are referring to someone who doesn't actually exist, but is someone whom you've just made up in your head.
The real evolutionists who actually participate in this forum might be offended at that.
Charles Darwin created a theory, not based on fact, but on his philosophy of life and belief system.
Not only is this as a matter of fact contemptibly and ridiculously false --- but I also cannot see how the quotations from Darwin that you append could possibly be adduced to justify it.
I should like to see you try to misinterpret those quotations such that they seem even vaguely to justify the nonsense that you're talking.
Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 285 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


(3)
Message 7 of 456 (552448)
03-29-2010 7:46 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Flyer75
03-28-2010 7:04 PM


Your post reveals the deep confusion of creationists.
Creationists think that everyone basically thinks like them, only different.
Creationists know that their belief is predicated on faith. So, because they are mostly insane, they also believe that any idea opposed to theirs must also be predicated on faith. And so they believe that rational people must regard The Origin Of Species as our holy book just like creationists regard the Bible as their holy book, and we must revere Darwin in the same way that they revere the Apostles, and because we regard natural selection as having done some of the things that they attribute to God, we evolutionists must bow down and worship natural selection ...
Creationists can't imagine someone believing something for sane reasons, just 'cos the evidence says so. They can only think about realists as being like them only having a different set of beliefs.
I would point out that realists don't do the same thing.
Creationists rave about how "evolution is a religion", because the nastiest and most insulting thing that they can think of to say about biology is that it resembles their own beliefs. Meanwhile scientists do not say that creationism is a science. They stand up and say that creationism is not a science. They say that creationism is about as far as science as can possibly be. This is how I would insult creationism --- I would say that it is the opposite of science.
But when a religious person wishes to insult science, he says that it's exactly like religion.
I do think this is odd. Surely if a religious person wants to insult science, he should say that it's the very opposite of his religion. But instead he jumps up and down and screams: "Look, you're just like me! You're doing what I'm doing! Your beliefs are exactly as ill-founded as mine! Admit it, you're as irrational as I am! Your beliefs are religion, just exactly like the thing that I would live and die for. Religion! Religion! You have faith, just like me. You're exactly like me --- you idiot!"
Well, I think it's odd.
Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.
Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.

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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 285 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 20 of 456 (552569)
03-29-2010 9:52 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by Flyer75
03-29-2010 5:58 PM


I guess I should simply ask, "what is the board's consensus on the definition of evolution"?
Descent with modification.
I guess I put too much mundane nonsense in my original post and should have just asked: how does evolution explain the beginnings of the universe ...
It doesn't. Evolution is a concept in biology. The universe isn't alive. Universes don't have sex with other universes to produce little baby universes.

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Replies to this message:
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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 285 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 79 of 456 (553441)
04-03-2010 3:57 AM
Reply to: Message 78 by kbertsche
04-03-2010 2:04 AM


Theology relies strongly on reason, similar to philosophy. Almost any sort of theological discussion would be an example of faith and reason working together. The classic historical formulations of doctrines such as the Trinity or the Deity of Christ in the 4th and 5th centuries are good examples. Or the debates regarding salvation between Augustine and Pelagius, and later between Luther and Erasmus.
Reason is the Devil's greatest whore; by nature and manner of being she is a noxious whore; she is a prostitute, the Devil's appointed whore; whore eaten by scab and leprosy who ought to be trodden under foot and destroyed, she and her wisdom Throw dung in her face to make her ugly. She is and she ought to be drowned in baptism. --- Martin Luther

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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 285 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 90 of 456 (553942)
04-05-2010 8:29 PM
Reply to: Message 89 by kbertsche
04-05-2010 7:58 PM


A philosopher of science might view it a bit differently. But for the scientist, I agree that our main evidence for faith in our presuppositions is pragmatism--the presuppositions seem to work well.
That's kinda what makes them not "presuppositions".

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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 285 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 276 of 456 (555447)
04-13-2010 5:05 PM
Reply to: Message 221 by kbertsche
04-10-2010 12:51 PM


But I have never seen an atheist rescue mission, able to provide purpose and meaning to those in the gutter and turn their lives around by preaching a message of atheism!
But of course you haven't. Atheists are rational. If an atheist wants to start a charity, would he be nuts enough to make it an explicitly atheist charity, such that only about 5% of the population would want to work for it or contribute to it?

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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 285 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 282 of 456 (555506)
04-14-2010 2:19 AM
Reply to: Message 278 by Flyer75
04-13-2010 5:34 PM


I'm saying that since it can't explain everything, at this point, that there is some faith involved.
No --- faith would be required if someone said that at this point biologists did have an explanation for everything in biology. But no-one says that.
The fact that there are some things that biologists don't know about biology doesn't put the things that they do know in doubt. It is not necessary for biologists to be omniscient about biology for me to agree that they know something about biology.

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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 285 days)
Posts: 16113
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 455 of 456 (562228)
05-26-2010 9:13 PM
Reply to: Message 454 by Adminnemooseus
05-26-2010 9:04 PM


Summation
I don't know what the topic is.
I think we lost it after the first two dozen posts.
C'est la vie.

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