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Author Topic:   Richard Dawkins vs The Pope
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 24 of 47 (555472)
04-13-2010 7:43 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by Jumped Up Chimpanzee
04-13-2010 5:47 AM


Effective or ineffective
It seems kind of unfair if scientists should not be allowed to exercise a democratic right to campaign on whatever issue they choose, just like anyone else; especially if it's decided that men who wear silly hats and believe in sky fairies should be allowed to run a worldwide systematic cover up of sexual abuse of little children.
I don't know anyone that would contend that Dawkins thoughts on the papacy's infatuation for pedophilia is wrong. It's a question of coverage versus content. Sure, he makes a damn good point... in this instance.
The problem is his tendency to equivocate. The priests did this, therefore, the Catholic Church is bad. The Catholic Church is Christian, which therefore makes Christianity bad. Christianity believes in God which makes God bad. People that believe in God are therefore bad.
He has every right to say whatever he wants to say, but Dawkins' singular greatest problem is that he has every appearance of a crusader. So why be surprised that he is caricatured as a crusader when he acts like one?
It's a question of getting one's point of view across productively or counter-productively.

"Political correctness is tyranny with manners." -- Charlton Heston

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by Jumped Up Chimpanzee, posted 04-13-2010 5:47 AM Jumped Up Chimpanzee has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 27 by anglagard, posted 04-14-2010 2:26 AM Hyroglyphx has replied
 Message 28 by Jumped Up Chimpanzee, posted 04-14-2010 4:53 AM Hyroglyphx has not replied
 Message 34 by Taq, posted 04-14-2010 12:39 PM Hyroglyphx has not replied

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 29 of 47 (555556)
04-14-2010 7:07 AM
Reply to: Message 27 by anglagard
04-14-2010 2:26 AM


Re: A Determinative Question at the Very Root of Morality Itself
My brother-in-law committed suicide by proxy (drank himself to death) because he was molested by Catholic priests as a teenager.
Not to sound insensitive towards your family, but I suspect your brother-in-law drank himself to death because he was, above all things, an alcoholic. I was molested as a child too by a neighbor. If pedophilia automatically leads to overdose, I'd have been dead a long time ago.
I have no more hope that the perpetrators or their allies be brought to justice than any other international criminal currently in power.
As do I. I also hope they place them in general population too
I completely suport the actions of Dawkins and Hitchens in this matter and my only question to them is "what can I do to help?"
I agree with them that their stature and clout offer them an opportunity to have a voice with a lot of reach. But are they protesting pedophilia in general or priests who perform pedophilia? Because if it's the latter, then it is not nearly as much about the victims than it is another reason to wage war on religion. Isn't that the real motivation here? What they choose to protest against is what is suspect.
I have the same visceral reaction towards the Catholic Church as they do. I think the papacy manufactures problem like this by disallowing people to be priests unless they become celibate. In that way they have tied up heavy loads of burden to be foisted upon people unnecessarily. Even Paul said that it is better to marry than burn with passion.
I want to vomit when I see all the gold in the Vatican, when I see how it operates more like a corporation than a community, etc. But Dawkins takes it to another level where all religion is unilaterally attacked. In that way I think it tends to undermine his own goal because his intolerance towards religion, just for being a religion, seems to make him drink from the same pool of fanaticism.

"Political correctness is tyranny with manners." -- Charlton Heston

This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by anglagard, posted 04-14-2010 2:26 AM anglagard has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 30 by Taz, posted 04-14-2010 8:33 AM Hyroglyphx has replied
 Message 31 by Granny Magda, posted 04-14-2010 10:21 AM Hyroglyphx has replied

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 35 of 47 (555607)
04-14-2010 1:19 PM
Reply to: Message 30 by Taz
04-14-2010 8:33 AM


Re: A Determinative Question at the Very Root of Morality Itself
I keep hearing this sort of thing from you. From what I have read and heard from the guy, I don't think he's attacking religion at all.
Maybe you're too far in the woods to see the trees or maybe you're a fish and can't see the water you swim in. Many people, even amongst his peers, seem to agree that his method of delivery does more harm than good.
Or are you using the fallacy of the middle ground?
If I was taking the middle ground I wouldn't be criticizing him, now would I?
Edited by Hyroglyphx, : No reason given.

"Political correctness is tyranny with manners." -- Charlton Heston

This message is a reply to:
 Message 30 by Taz, posted 04-14-2010 8:33 AM Taz has not replied

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 36 of 47 (555609)
04-14-2010 1:27 PM
Reply to: Message 31 by Granny Magda
04-14-2010 10:21 AM


Re: A Determinative Question at the Very Root of Morality Itself
Has Dawkins called for any other religious leaders to be arrested? Or just the one who has personally aided and abetted paedophiles within the ranks of his church?
I'm speaking in generalities here. His staunch aversion towards anything religious is well documented.
I can only speak for myself, but what really appals me is that the Vatican has actively covered up for the paedophiles within its ranks.
I agree that these people should be arrested and I agree that they should be held accountable. I was just commenting that Dawkins' choice of coverage is indicative of his hatred for all things religious.
What is the reason for the cover up? Protecting their asses. These people are not sick. They are just evil. That, in my opinion, is inexcusable.
I agree 100%. Lock them up, seek a resolution that they cannot have immunity for raping kids. Throw the book at them.

"Political correctness is tyranny with manners." -- Charlton Heston

This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by Granny Magda, posted 04-14-2010 10:21 AM Granny Magda has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 37 by Granny Magda, posted 04-14-2010 1:39 PM Hyroglyphx has not replied
 Message 38 by onifre, posted 04-14-2010 1:45 PM Hyroglyphx has not replied

  
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