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Author Topic:   The Future of Artificial Intelligence: Can machines become sentient (self-aware)
caffeine
Member (Idle past 1045 days)
Posts: 1800
From: Prague, Czech Republic
Joined: 10-22-2008


Message 9 of 51 (555755)
04-15-2010 9:23 AM


What causes sentience?
Everybody seems to be getting a bit ahead of themselves here. Before we can even begin to think about answering the question of what it would take for machines to be sentient, we'd have to have some idea of what it takes for us to be sentient. You can reply that it's the connections between neurons in the brain, but this doesn't at all address how this creates sentience.
Bluejay mentioned the ability to disobey as a criterion of sentience, but how do we even know that we have the ability to disobey? I don't mean in the simplistic sense of disobeying an instruction from somebody - computers can do that ('Illegal operation'; 'file not found' etc.). The implication seemed to be about disobeying your own programming, and I don't see any reason to assume that people can do that. How could we distinguish between someone disobeying the deterministic processes which determine how their brain works and somebody obeying them?
DevilsAdvocate talked about 'striving against biological and physical rules' but, again, how could we know if this is ever done? The human brain is an incredibly complex piece of work, and somebody acting contrary to their reproductive success (which is, I assume, the sort of thing you mean) doesn't mean they're acting against any biological or physical rules. It could just mean that, despite being like it is because brains like this have tended to favour reproductive success in the past, there's no guarantee that it always will in all circumstances.
Nobody has any clear idea how sentience is created, so we can't know what it would take to create it, is all I suppose I'm trying to say.

Replies to this message:
 Message 14 by DevilsAdvocate, posted 04-15-2010 10:53 AM caffeine has replied
 Message 15 by Jazzns, posted 04-15-2010 11:33 AM caffeine has replied

  
caffeine
Member (Idle past 1045 days)
Posts: 1800
From: Prague, Czech Republic
Joined: 10-22-2008


Message 18 of 51 (555802)
04-15-2010 12:23 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by DevilsAdvocate
04-15-2010 10:53 AM


Re: What causes sentience?
By sentience, I think we can all agree we are talking human-like sentience. The ability to contemplate one's self and the ability to increase their knowledge base both on an individual level and collectively. Culture (accumulation of moral and social norms) and science (expounded accumulation of knowledge of ourselves and the universe around us) are only achievable at this level of sentience.
All well and good, but I wasn't saying we didn't agree on what sort of sentience we're discussing. Having agreed that we're talking about human-level sentience, we still have no idea how this comes about. how can we know whether we'll be able to artificially reproduce it when we don't know how or why it happens naturally?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by DevilsAdvocate, posted 04-15-2010 10:53 AM DevilsAdvocate has replied

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 Message 22 by DevilsAdvocate, posted 04-15-2010 12:39 PM caffeine has not replied

  
caffeine
Member (Idle past 1045 days)
Posts: 1800
From: Prague, Czech Republic
Joined: 10-22-2008


Message 20 of 51 (555805)
04-15-2010 12:30 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by Jazzns
04-15-2010 11:33 AM


Re: What causes sentience?
I think we need better definitions of obey and disobey to go down this path. Your examples are flawed in the sense that they define 'disobey' as being materially incapable of performing the command. When a computer tells you 'Illegal Operation' or something equivalent, it is very simply a deterministic result of being physically incapable of doing what you told it. There is very literally no possible way the electrons can flow down the wires of the integrated circuit in the exact pattern you specified.
Which is kind of the point I was trying to make. When a human refuses to do something based on self-interest, or for any other reason for that matter, there's no reason to assume this isn't simply a deterministic product of the wiring of our brains.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by Jazzns, posted 04-15-2010 11:33 AM Jazzns has not replied

  
caffeine
Member (Idle past 1045 days)
Posts: 1800
From: Prague, Czech Republic
Joined: 10-22-2008


Message 34 of 51 (555890)
04-16-2010 3:56 AM
Reply to: Message 33 by Rahvin
04-15-2010 6:02 PM


Re: What causes sentience?
The problems with this approach are manifold. First, you are using a lot of overhead simulating all of those neurons. That's a lot of processing power. Second, you're not solving any of the shortcomings of the human mind - you haven't altered the architecture or the flawed ways we think even one bit. Third, you don;t have any idea what you've done - this approach is like a small child copying letters from a book but unable to read and understand the words being copied.
If this could be done though, at the very least it would demonstrate that conciousness is an emergent property of the brain, which might annoy a lot of philosophers and theologians.
In the absence of anything more constructive to offer, I think it says a lot about our cultural upbringing that, when reading about AI rewriting its own goals, all I could think about was Skynet and visions of dark, bleak, post-apocalyptic landscapes.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by Rahvin, posted 04-15-2010 6:02 PM Rahvin has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 38 by DevilsAdvocate, posted 04-16-2010 5:41 AM caffeine has not replied
 Message 43 by Rahvin, posted 04-16-2010 11:28 AM caffeine has not replied

  
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