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Author Topic:   Air Force Academy creates worship area for Pagans, Druids, and Wiccans
nwr
Member
Posts: 6409
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 76 of 244 (556726)
04-20-2010 10:06 PM
Reply to: Message 70 by Faith
04-20-2010 9:52 PM


Re: The Constitution is OLD
Faith writes:
Buz's point was that the Supreme Court is to serve the law, justice and truth, not people, and anyone who reduces their obligation to being sensitive to people has already trashed justice.
You are trashing common sense.
Saying that judges should be sensitive to people is not at all the same as saying that justice is reduced to being sensitive to people.
Faith writes:
No, judges are to be about justice, not people.
That makes no sense at all. In a world with no people, there would be no injustice. The whole notion of justice is about people.
When Jesus told us to do unto others as you would have them do unto you, he was explaining that justice is all about people.

Jesus was a liberal hippie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 70 by Faith, posted 04-20-2010 9:52 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 78 by Faith, posted 04-20-2010 10:13 PM nwr has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1463 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 77 of 244 (556727)
04-20-2010 10:10 PM
Reply to: Message 71 by Rahvin
04-20-2010 9:55 PM


Re: prohibiting the free exercise of religion in the service of the first amendment
Right, thank you Rahvin, I knew these things were going on so there you have it, and you are giving the standard rationalization, claiming the law requires it rather than that it's a violation of the prohibition clause.
Yes, it's a complicated situation I grant but the schools are not Congress and not the US government so the idea that they are violating the 1st amendment in allowing religious practices is ridiculous.
Teachers shouldn't pressure children about anything and it's just plain courtesy and good classroom demeanor to maintain a neutral attitude about personal beliefs (although I had one high school teacher myself who preached against religion and others who preached politics and I know it goes on anyway). Nothing to do with the first amendment, just simple common sense, an administrative matter, not a matter for the first amendment.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 71 by Rahvin, posted 04-20-2010 9:55 PM Rahvin has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1463 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 78 of 244 (556728)
04-20-2010 10:13 PM
Reply to: Message 76 by nwr
04-20-2010 10:06 PM


Re: The Constitution is OLD
Then YOU please explain the symbolism of Lady Justice with the blindfold and the scales or do you just want to throw her into the trash?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 76 by nwr, posted 04-20-2010 10:06 PM nwr has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 79 by Rahvin, posted 04-20-2010 10:21 PM Faith has replied
 Message 80 by nwr, posted 04-20-2010 10:22 PM Faith has replied

  
Rahvin
Member
Posts: 4039
Joined: 07-01-2005
Member Rating: 8.0


Message 79 of 244 (556731)
04-20-2010 10:21 PM
Reply to: Message 78 by Faith
04-20-2010 10:13 PM


Re: The Constitution is OLD
Then YOU please explain the symbolism of Lady Justice with the blindfold and the scales or do you just want to throw her into the trash?
The scales symbolize fairness, and the blindfold symbolizes a lack of favoritism or prejudice.
Why do we want those things, Faith?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 78 by Faith, posted 04-20-2010 10:13 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 81 by Faith, posted 04-20-2010 10:25 PM Rahvin has replied

  
nwr
Member
Posts: 6409
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 80 of 244 (556732)
04-20-2010 10:22 PM
Reply to: Message 78 by Faith
04-20-2010 10:13 PM


Re: The Constitution is OLD
Faith writes:
Then YOU please explain the symbolism of Lady Justice with the blindfold and the scales or do you just want to throw her into the trash?
I'm sorry. If you don't understand that as being all about people, then you are so far out of touch with reality that I would not know where to begin.

Jesus was a liberal hippie

This message is a reply to:
 Message 78 by Faith, posted 04-20-2010 10:13 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 82 by Faith, posted 04-20-2010 10:29 PM nwr has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1463 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 81 of 244 (556733)
04-20-2010 10:25 PM
Reply to: Message 79 by Rahvin
04-20-2010 10:21 PM


Re: The Constitution is OLD
Because the human tendency is to decide not on the grounds of fairness and impartiality but according to who the people are that are being brought before the court. So to explicitly require a judge to judge cases on the grounds of sensitivity to people is to explicitly deny the impartiality and fairness of true justice. Justice requires a complete lack of concern about WHO is being judged.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 79 by Rahvin, posted 04-20-2010 10:21 PM Rahvin has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 83 by Rahvin, posted 04-20-2010 10:30 PM Faith has replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1463 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 82 of 244 (556734)
04-20-2010 10:29 PM
Reply to: Message 80 by nwr
04-20-2010 10:22 PM


Serving justice versus serving people
Sorry, nwr, it is not about ALL people, it is about specific people. Obama doesn't want justice he want empathy to specific groups of people:
Obama said:
We need somebody who's got the heart, the empathy, to recognize what it's like to be a young teenage mom. The empathy to understand what it's like to be poor, or African-American, or gay, or disabled, or old. And that's the criteria by which I'm going to be selecting my judges.
The Volokh Conspiracy - Who Would Barack Obama Nominate to the Supreme Court?:
That is NOT the business of a judge. Absolute total blindness to persons is the business of a judge.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 80 by nwr, posted 04-20-2010 10:22 PM nwr has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 84 by hooah212002, posted 04-20-2010 10:31 PM Faith has not replied
 Message 90 by nwr, posted 04-20-2010 11:05 PM Faith has not replied

  
Rahvin
Member
Posts: 4039
Joined: 07-01-2005
Member Rating: 8.0


Message 83 of 244 (556735)
04-20-2010 10:30 PM
Reply to: Message 81 by Faith
04-20-2010 10:25 PM


Re: The Constitution is OLD
Because the human tendency is to decide not on the grounds of fairness and impartiality but according to who the people are that are being brought before the court. So to explicitly require a judge to judge cases on the grounds of sensitivity to people is to explicitly deny the impartiality and fairness of true justice. Justice requires a complete lack of concern about WHO is being judged.
Because the human tendency is to decide not on the grounds of fairness and impartiality but according to who the people are that are being brought before the court. So to explicitly require a judge to judge cases on the grounds of sensitivity to people is to explicitly deny the impartiality and fairness of true justice. Justice requires a complete lack of concern about WHO is being judged.
You didnt answer the question.
Why do we want those thintgs, Faith? Why do we want to overcome the human tendencies for prejudice and unfairness?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 81 by Faith, posted 04-20-2010 10:25 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 85 by Faith, posted 04-20-2010 10:31 PM Rahvin has replied

  
hooah212002
Member (Idle past 820 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 84 of 244 (556736)
04-20-2010 10:31 PM
Reply to: Message 82 by Faith
04-20-2010 10:29 PM


Re: Serving justice versus serving people
Do you know what "examples" are, faith?

"Some people think God is an outsized, light-skinned male with a long white beard, sitting on a throne somewhere up there in the sky, busily tallying the fall of every sparrow. Othersfor example Baruch Spinoza and Albert Einsteinconsidered God to be essentially the sum total of the physical laws which describe the universe. I do not know of any compelling evidence for anthropomorphic patriarchs controlling human destiny from some hidden celestial vantage point, but it would be madness to deny the existence of physical laws."-Carl Sagan
"Show me where Christ said "Love thy fellow man, except for the gay ones." Gay people, too, are made in my God's image. I would never worship a homophobic God." -Desmond Tutu

This message is a reply to:
 Message 82 by Faith, posted 04-20-2010 10:29 PM Faith has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1463 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 85 of 244 (556737)
04-20-2010 10:31 PM
Reply to: Message 83 by Rahvin
04-20-2010 10:30 PM


Re: The Constitution is OLD
Why on earth would you ask such a question? If we don't run government by higher standards than our own human prejudices we might as well go back to living in caves.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 83 by Rahvin, posted 04-20-2010 10:30 PM Rahvin has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 86 by Rahvin, posted 04-20-2010 10:36 PM Faith has replied

  
Rahvin
Member
Posts: 4039
Joined: 07-01-2005
Member Rating: 8.0


Message 86 of 244 (556738)
04-20-2010 10:36 PM
Reply to: Message 85 by Faith
04-20-2010 10:31 PM


Re: The Constitution is OLD
Why on earth would you ask such a question? If we don't run government by higher standards than our own human prejudices we might as well go back to living in caves.
So...the purpose of justice and fairness is in fact to improve the lives of people over what our lives would be like in an anarchy?
So...the purpose of justice and law is to serve the people?
Like I said it was?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 85 by Faith, posted 04-20-2010 10:31 PM Faith has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 87 by Faith, posted 04-20-2010 10:39 PM Rahvin has not replied

  
Faith 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1463 days)
Posts: 35298
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001


Message 87 of 244 (556739)
04-20-2010 10:39 PM
Reply to: Message 86 by Rahvin
04-20-2010 10:36 PM


Re: The Constitution is OLD
OK you want to insist on using the term in a different sense than I'm using it so you can make it say what you want it to say. The quote from Obama is very clear that your meaning is not his meaning, but hey, we don't HAVE to communicate if you like talking at cross purposes all the time.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 86 by Rahvin, posted 04-20-2010 10:36 PM Rahvin has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 88 by hooah212002, posted 04-20-2010 10:44 PM Faith has not replied

  
hooah212002
Member (Idle past 820 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 88 of 244 (556740)
04-20-2010 10:44 PM
Reply to: Message 87 by Faith
04-20-2010 10:39 PM


Re: The Constitution is OLD
Do you even know the context in which this statement by President Obama was made?

"Some people think God is an outsized, light-skinned male with a long white beard, sitting on a throne somewhere up there in the sky, busily tallying the fall of every sparrow. Othersfor example Baruch Spinoza and Albert Einsteinconsidered God to be essentially the sum total of the physical laws which describe the universe. I do not know of any compelling evidence for anthropomorphic patriarchs controlling human destiny from some hidden celestial vantage point, but it would be madness to deny the existence of physical laws."-Carl Sagan
"Show me where Christ said "Love thy fellow man, except for the gay ones." Gay people, too, are made in my God's image. I would never worship a homophobic God." -Desmond Tutu

This message is a reply to:
 Message 87 by Faith, posted 04-20-2010 10:39 PM Faith has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9133
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 89 of 244 (556743)
04-20-2010 11:04 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by Rrhain
04-20-2010 4:19 AM


Oh, and please answer my question:
Beetaratagang or clerendipity?
Now thats cold. Funny, but cold.
And I approve 100%

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by Rrhain, posted 04-20-2010 4:19 AM Rrhain has not replied

  
nwr
Member
Posts: 6409
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 90 of 244 (556744)
04-20-2010 11:05 PM
Reply to: Message 82 by Faith
04-20-2010 10:29 PM


Re: Serving justice versus serving people
Faith writes:
Sorry, nwr, it is not about ALL people, it is about specific people. Obama doesn't want justice he want empathy to specific groups of people
Sorry, Faith, but you are quite wrong about that. I suggest you spend less time listening to the ravings of the lunatic right.
Faith writes:
Absolute total blindness to persons is the business of a judge.
And that is precisely what Obama was asking for.
If you don't understand that, it is because you have allowed yourself to be persuaded by the deliberate misconstruals by the lunatic right, misconstruals that were intended to be part of malicious and dishonest campaign to discredit Obama.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 82 by Faith, posted 04-20-2010 10:29 PM Faith has not replied

  
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