Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 66 (9164 total)
3 online now:
Newest Member: ChatGPT
Post Volume: Total: 916,472 Year: 3,729/9,624 Month: 600/974 Week: 213/276 Day: 53/34 Hour: 1/2


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Entropy in Layman's Terms
Son
Member (Idle past 3852 days)
Posts: 346
From: France,Paris
Joined: 03-11-2009


Message 7 of 51 (544610)
01-27-2010 1:50 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by Parasomnium
01-27-2010 12:29 PM


Re: Here's my attempt
I think that this thread needs some kind of feedback to see if the explanations worsk well with the layman due to the particuliar nature of this thread. I don't have an explanation in layman's term but I can provide some feedback.
I think that Rrhain's explanation works well to explain how entropy works and is easily understandable for most people. The water analogy explains well why entropy says perpetual motion machine can't exist. I also liked how he explained the difference between energy and usable energy.
I thought that Son Goku explained well why entropy worked the way it does but I'm less sure that it could reach the masses because lots of people seem to dislike maths (but I may be mistaken).
Overall, those were my 2 favorites explanation, Rrhain explaining how entropy works whereas Son Goku explaining why it works this way.
(If this post has no place in this thread, tell me, I will delete the content)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by Parasomnium, posted 01-27-2010 12:29 PM Parasomnium has not replied

  
Son
Member (Idle past 3852 days)
Posts: 346
From: France,Paris
Joined: 03-11-2009


Message 20 of 51 (557291)
04-24-2010 9:55 AM
Reply to: Message 18 by Buzsaw
04-24-2010 8:32 AM


Did you actually read the thread? What you said had nothing to do with what the participants said. The op you quoted even said that 2Lot wasn't about order, disorder , etc.... so why are you talking about order again?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by Buzsaw, posted 04-24-2010 8:32 AM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 29 by Buzsaw, posted 04-24-2010 3:14 PM Son has replied

  
Son
Member (Idle past 3852 days)
Posts: 346
From: France,Paris
Joined: 03-11-2009


Message 31 of 51 (557321)
04-24-2010 3:44 PM
Reply to: Message 29 by Buzsaw
04-24-2010 3:14 PM


Re: Comprehending The OP
What I'm saying is that 2lot (as expressed in the op) has nothing to do with order or disorder. The passage you quoted even said it explicitely. So why are you talking about it? Are you actually disagreeing with what 2Lot says?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 29 by Buzsaw, posted 04-24-2010 3:14 PM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 32 by Buzsaw, posted 04-24-2010 4:29 PM Son has replied

  
Son
Member (Idle past 3852 days)
Posts: 346
From: France,Paris
Joined: 03-11-2009


Message 33 of 51 (557334)
04-24-2010 5:32 PM
Reply to: Message 32 by Buzsaw
04-24-2010 4:29 PM


Re: Comprehending The OP
Rrhain's OP writes:
This is why concepts of "information" or "disorder" make no sense in their regular senses: It isn't a question of "ordering" the energy. It's that it is no longer physically available to do any work. When we reduce the concept of the Second Law and entropy to the phrase, "The universe tends towards disorder," what we mean is that the energy distribution of the universe is tending toward a uniformity. You see, energy transfer depends upon variations in energy states. If everything is the same, then there can be no reaction.
Rrhain's OP writes:
we have to start with making the point that entropy is a statement about energy. It isn't about "information" or "order" or "disorder."disorder
Obviously, Rhain is describing the 2lot separating it from the common use of order and disorder. Meaning using disorder like you used it if you actually agree with Rhain's description of the 2lot makes no sense. You are talking about disorderly and orderly energy, but what does it mean and what does it have to do with the 2lot?
Buzsaw writes:
What we observe relative to your laymen's definition is that aside from management, things do tend towards disorder. If we don't keep up the barn roof via work, it begins to leak and sooner or later the barn collapses into disorder. Whatever is not ID maintained and managed via work tends towards disorder whereas managed energy effects order.
For example, this does have no relations at all with 2lot. 2lot only states that available energy for work decreases overtime in a closed system.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 32 by Buzsaw, posted 04-24-2010 4:29 PM Buzsaw has not replied

  
Son
Member (Idle past 3852 days)
Posts: 346
From: France,Paris
Joined: 03-11-2009


Message 40 of 51 (557429)
04-25-2010 2:18 PM
Reply to: Message 37 by Buzsaw
04-25-2010 10:55 AM


But if you believe what you says, it means you actually DISAGREE with 2lot (maybe because it doesn't invoke God or something?). This thread is to discuss how to explain what 2lot says, if you disagree with it, start another thread and show where it's wrong. By the way, if you manage to make a perpetual system, better make, proves us wrong and get the nobel prize. (In case you still didn't understand what 2lot says, it disallows the possibility of a perpetual system)
OFF TOPIC - Please Do Not Respond to this message by continuing in this vein.
AdminPD
Edited by AdminPD, : Warning

This message is a reply to:
 Message 37 by Buzsaw, posted 04-25-2010 10:55 AM Buzsaw has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024