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Author Topic:   Avoiding Aliens
Jumped Up Chimpanzee
Member (Idle past 4942 days)
Posts: 572
From: UK
Joined: 10-22-2009


Message 3 of 62 (557481)
04-26-2010 7:12 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Stagamancer
04-26-2010 2:14 AM


My main question to you is: Do the potential benefits from contacting alien species outweigh the risks, or has Dr Hawking been watching too much V?
He's definitely been watching too much V! I've often thought that Hawking, although obviously very clever in his academic field, talks a lot of unoriginal, wishy-washy drivel.
It just doesn't seem to make sense to me that a species that is so advanced that it can roam the universe should need to lead a nomadic lifestyle, plundering resources from other planets. You'd think that they'd have learnt to re-cycle first. If not, let's send them a few bottle banks.

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 Message 1 by Stagamancer, posted 04-26-2010 2:14 AM Stagamancer has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 4 by cavediver, posted 04-26-2010 7:56 AM Jumped Up Chimpanzee has replied
 Message 28 by Taz, posted 04-26-2010 10:15 PM Jumped Up Chimpanzee has replied

  
Jumped Up Chimpanzee
Member (Idle past 4942 days)
Posts: 572
From: UK
Joined: 10-22-2009


Message 9 of 62 (557504)
04-26-2010 10:34 AM
Reply to: Message 4 by cavediver
04-26-2010 7:56 AM


JUC writes:
It just doesn't seem to make sense to me that a species that is so advanced that it can roam the universe should need to lead a nomadic lifestyle, plundering resources from other planets. You'd think that they'd have learnt to re-cycle first.
cavediver says:
Well, that's a bullet-proof rebuttal.
When the opening volley comes out of a pea-shooter, you don't need to fire back from a tank!
Do you think that as soon as we gain the ability to traverse say local inter-stellar distances, our entire nature will change and it will all be STNG love and harmony?
Well, we are already aware of problems we are causing to our own planet and it is within our ability to solve those problems. OK, we are a long way from achieving a fully sustainable life on Earth, but at least we've got the awareness and we might be able to make a significant achievement within decades. But we are nowhere near being able to roam even local inter-stella distances. How much easier to live a sustainable life than to roam desparately around the universe looking for the next meal? If you have the technology to roam inter-stella distances, surely you would have the technology that would enable you to live a very comfortable life on your home planet or even colonise and convert a dead planet to your precise requirements. Regardless of what your nature may be, it's a question of energy as much as anything else.
JUC writes:
I've often thought that Hawking, although obviously very clever in his academic field, talks a lot of unoriginal, wishy-washy drivel.
cavediver says:
Any examples spring to mind?
Specifically? No.

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Replies to this message:
 Message 11 by cavediver, posted 04-26-2010 10:59 AM Jumped Up Chimpanzee has replied

  
Jumped Up Chimpanzee
Member (Idle past 4942 days)
Posts: 572
From: UK
Joined: 10-22-2009


Message 14 of 62 (557526)
04-26-2010 12:46 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by cavediver
04-26-2010 10:59 AM


You have to remember to split the "we" into ethical, scientific, political, and corporate. Once that is done, the rest is obvious...
I take your point that even within 1 species there are many different agendas and interests. And it is true that disputes on Earth have already spilled into space in the form of military satellites, etc. And I fear early settlement on the Moon could be a bit "ugly". But I agree with Rahvin that it would simply be much easier to obtain resources from dead asteroids, etc, rather than attack a living planet many light years away. And I also agree with Bluejay that it is most likely that a species that develops the ability to travel inter-stella distances must have developed social and ethical characteristics that would be more likely to make them benign visitors.
I think human development of our own solar system will be something of a guiding light on this issue. Can we explore our own system with the successful aim of managing our own planet in a sustainable manner? Or will we exploit this system for all it's worth with the short-term aim of ever expanding nationalist priorities and populations? I think that is a much more immediate and interesting consideration.

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 Message 11 by cavediver, posted 04-26-2010 10:59 AM cavediver has not replied

  
Jumped Up Chimpanzee
Member (Idle past 4942 days)
Posts: 572
From: UK
Joined: 10-22-2009


Message 32 of 62 (557605)
04-27-2010 4:53 AM
Reply to: Message 28 by Taz
04-26-2010 10:15 PM


And in the same way, Hawking's quote presented a higher meaning than what is literally there. He didn't literally mean that there will be nomadic alien races out to take over our planet. He only used that as one possible example of how contact with a more advance civilization might be a bad idea just like I used rapists as one possible example of how releasing all prisoners in one day is a bad idea.
I accept you have a point in that respect, and maybe I was unfair to criticise Hawking, especially as it was one quote lifted from a whole series.
Yes, there may be other dangers from aliens apart from just the prospect of war.
But I still hold the opinion, as others clearly do, that it just seems staggeringly unlikely that any aliens would need to come to the Earth for selfish reasons, when they could almost certainly find whatever they need much closer to wherever they come from.
I would like to think that if we found life today on one of the planets or moons in our own solar system, we already have the awareness to treat it with the utmost care and respect. I may be naive in that but I really do think that given a "fresh" planet with life we would make our best effort to look after it.
I'm also hopeful that we will develop the technology and social attitudes necessary to clean up our own planet long before we have the technology to travel to distant stars. If we don't, we'll almost certainly destroy ourselves long before we have inter-stella technology. I think it is likely the same scenario would apply to any alien species.

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 Message 28 by Taz, posted 04-26-2010 10:15 PM Taz has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 34 by Taz, posted 04-27-2010 10:37 AM Jumped Up Chimpanzee has not replied

  
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