Are The Historical Respective Roles Of The Genders Relevant Today?

In the Wicca thread we emerged into an off topic debate on the role of the genders.My ratings slid (nice to have low ratings=nothing to loose ) as a verbal firestorm ensued because this ole man suggested that perhaps what worked for all human cultures, relative to the role of the respective genders, for six milleniums of recorded history might work best for our times.Let the firestorm rage on if we can get this topic promoted in the Coffee House or perhaps, if there's fear of the tables and counters being overturned, in Freeforall.Anglagard's biting his bit to post his stuff on this and no doubt others will enjoy the verbal skirmish as well. Edited by Buzsaw, : Eliminate word Edited by Buzsaw, : Re-spell skirmish

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

I see this as a strawman, Huntard. The gender thing has to do with physiology and the slave/torture thing does not.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

Hi Moose. Nice to see you out & about in the forum threads. Wars involve conflict, greed, ambition, protection, survival and things like that, moreso than emotion. Heck, if persuasion was easy for leaders, who were mostly men, persuasion would often trump war. Women have not traditionally been as agressive as men. They have traditionally (I say traditionally) been referred to as the fairer and weaker sex, weaker, of course relative to physical strength.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

Good questions, Coyote.1) I like the quote from Richard Cotton who was on the radio in San Diego back in the 1960s when I was out there. ( men aka mankind)This silly notion that all men are created equal is stupidity. In the first place, whether you go with evolution or creation, only one was created. The rest procreated. All are unequal in some way, physiologically, mentally, prestige, culturally, etc. More freedom has been lost by mandating equality than anything else. Last century hundreds of millions were murdered, impoverished and oppressed by governments and dummies who tried to make all men equal. It's now happening in the US of A. Diversity and freedom go hand in hand.2) Educational opportunities should be open to all, but not necessarily provided for all by someone else's buck.3) As I said before, men are more adapted to the leadership role and this has been the case for nearly six milleniums of human history. The Biblical way is best. If the man loves his wife as he ought, he will want the best for her. No human entity works with two equal presidents.The problem arises with cultures such as Islam which oppresses women and men everywhere who do not practice Biblical principles such as love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness faith, meekness and self control. See Galatians or Ephesians 5:22, 23. I don't remember for sure which book.I have to leave out of town now. Will try to do some more responding when I can.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

So by that token it would be delusianal for draft laws, job descriptions, regardless of brute strength needed, front line combat, rest room laws, dress codes and a host of other gender relative matters to assume that all should be goverened by the same set of laws. The majority of the founders obviously figured voting rights weren't for everyone. No?For nearly 6 milleniums most cultures understood that families function better with one having the leadership role rather than two presiding ones with equal authority.Most have been traditionally sensible enough to understand that the strong one who was responsible for the safety of the family would be the one suited for the leadership role.One area I see in modern culture is the discipline of children. It is the manly commanding lower voice, the physical strength and the relatively larger sized male that is most capable of handling the ultimate discipline of the children. We've lost much of that today with so many of the families without a male leadership role in the household. Obviously we're paying a hefty price for it culturally.I'll quote from the prophet Isaiah in the third chapter relative to the end times. This prophecy, as are all Biblical prophecies, so on the mark with our times: --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

LOL, Theodoric. Logic and love is fine. I used it on my boys and their families who still honor and respect their mother and me. Interestingly, one of the reasons they honor, love and respect us is that when folks asked me how we made them behave so well as children, the answer was, we gave them no choice. There were times, especially when very young that some loving corporal punishment was needful in the mix of disciplinary measures.As the Bible says, regarding God and us who believers in his son, Jesus, the christ/lord, "whom he loves he chastens." I spanked the boys a few times when very young. That was all it took to get their respect and attention that they had no choice but to obey for their own good, training and welfare.My wife, who did a good job as well with them, usually threatened them with, "your dad will deal with this when he gets home." That was all that she needed to do. We both always had their love and respect for the way we dealt with them. The first thing my little boy would do if and when a spanking was needful, was to come back and buddy up to me, since they knew the discipline was deserved.We still have the American Legion Boy's State framed certificates of our disciplined boys hanging on the wall in our living room. They now have excellent jobs, nice incomes and their own families, thanks to the logic/love/corporal punishment formula.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

Devil's Advocate man, contrary to the implication of your meanspirited display of garbauge, for the record, I've never, ever, in 55 years, laid anything but a loving hand on my wife and I don't mean disciplinary loving hand. Physical punishment was solely reserved for the children.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

For the record, my wife and I also have a partnership in which most decisions are discussed, often the wife's wishes trumping my own. There are, however times of impasse, when a divinely appointed presiding authority must break the impasse. This avoids much bickering, unrest and ultimate separation or divorce, wifey, also honoring Biblical principles, understanding her providential role in the family unit.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

Another Buz for the record is that at all elections my wife and I both make it a practice to vote. I have her totally indoctinated.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

To make the final decision when/if empasse is reached and to more or less oversee the family affairs. This is very true, PD. Consistency is very important. Neither my wife or I have had a problem in this respect. It appears that you've missunderstood me. My wife's parenting skills were very efficient. However, there were times when she felt that I should deal with a disciplinary problem after I returned home from the business. Traditionally, this has been the case, that the wife kept the house and the husband was the breadwinner. It was so in our family. That is the ideal for the children rather than being cared for by someone else while both work. Perhaps if our material wants were less, and we were more frugal, more could live on one income.I've never claimed that the man always has the right or better answer. We talk most decisions over before deciding. Often I consult my wife on what would be best, etc. The leadership role is not dictatorial in the home by any means. I've already explained that many decisions are left to my wife. She pretty much runs the home. She comes and goes where she wishes without consulting me and that's fine. I know it was, but this phenomenon of oppressive children and ruling women was not contemporaneous to ancient Israel. It's happening pretty much globally now. That the prophecy was addressed to Israel is irrevelant for that reason. It was just another of the end time prophecies.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

Hi Son. Thanks to you and others who have been patient for responses.I apply the Biblical role of women, which was quite broad. Lydia, in the NT, a maker and seller of purple textile had a home business which afforded her the ability to keep the house, tend any children if she had any and make/sell her goods.The role of a woman is quite well articulated in the last chapter of the wisdom book of King Solomon, chapter 31 beginning with verse 10, (ASV): She diligently does what mostly pertains to the household as her husband is out being the primary breadwinner.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

Hi Flyer. I appreciate your sensible and good-spirited input here at EvC. Yes, I agree that things won't change. Being a Biblical prophecy buff, imo, it will change when king Jesus's 2nd advent revolutionizes the planet for the good, albeit things will continue to worsen dramatically and rather suddenly in the transition.Yes, families have lots more nice things but relatively not so nice children who are growing up to become an ever more apostate, violent and unhappy generation. Enjoy while it lasts, Flyer. As I understand the prophecies and observe, things are progressing into all nations descending into poverty, oppression as enforced distribution of wealth becomes enforced via global government etc. The American dream is on the fast track to the end of the track where the bridge is out and the chasm is deep.I don't know how long you've been a police officer. Are you observing an increase in violence and unrest where ever you are?

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

Caffeine, too much black coffee. Slow down and read thoughtfully. Her business was home based. Most of the things she did were relative to her family and home.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

To become blessed, wise and mature requires unceasing vigilance in conserving historical Biblical values. Buzsaw

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

Coyote, you and your friends consistently convolute my position, which that the Biblical role of the woman is to tend the house and children as the man is in the workplace, be it a fisherman, merchant in the markets, farmer, etc.You and your friends, in your meanspirited manner, refuse to acknowledge that nearly all cultures practiced slavery and that Biblical principles relative to the slavery has been that slaves should be well treated and cared for, whereas other religions were often ruthless.Owners were masters and workers who serve were servants as there was no ancient Hebrew word for employers, so whether one was hired or owned it was masters and servants.As you people well know, nobody's advocating slavery or spinning from whole cloth. You just see it as a personal cheap shot.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.