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Author Topic:   Noah's ark found ?!?
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 53 of 88 (558021)
04-29-2010 11:36 AM
Reply to: Message 18 by PsychMJC
04-27-2010 7:01 PM


Re: Think you're wrong on this one..
It would certainly help to persuade me. I bet it would bring thousands back to the church.
I don't see why. There have long been accounts of a large flood in the Mesopotamian and Anatolian regions that have all been confirmed by modern science. The Black Sea used to be the Black Lake until the Bosporous burst open sending a deluge of sea water, flooding that enormous region.
What that doesn't mean is that this confirms God, nor does it confirm that every animal on the planet was housed on an ark, nor does it prove that it actually is the Ark described in the bible, or anything else.
A huge flood happened. It did. And many ancients reported it and added their own mystical stories to explain how and why it happened. It does not mean that the legend is therefore true on all accounts.
Like most folklore, interwined between woven fabrics of pure bullshit is smatterings of truth. This should be no exception.
What likely could have happened is that after the flood occured (which was localized and not global) is that a bunch of people saw a large ship resting on the mountain. People in that area then wrote about it (look in Sumerian lore) and it spread the word. Through word of mouth the story then synthesized all over the Middle East, Asia Minor, and the Mediteranean. They each put their own little spin on it.
So, even if it is the ark, it doesn't mean that the stories about the The Ark are necessarily true. Think about it.

"Political correctness is tyranny with manners." -- Charlton Heston

This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by PsychMJC, posted 04-27-2010 7:01 PM PsychMJC has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 55 by Flyer75, posted 04-29-2010 2:05 PM Hyroglyphx has replied
 Message 66 by PsychMJC, posted 04-29-2010 4:09 PM Hyroglyphx has not replied

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 57 of 88 (558038)
04-29-2010 2:21 PM
Reply to: Message 55 by Flyer75
04-29-2010 2:05 PM


Re: Think you're wrong on this one..
I understand your point but I think your being a little unfair to the significance of the find
I don't mean to diminish the historical or archaeological significance of it. My statement was directly in context with the poster alluding to believing in the bible because of it. I am simply saying that even if it is The Ark, it doesn't mean that the entirety of the bible (or even the story of the Ark) is therefore confirmed. I'm just making the distinction, not diminishing its total significance.
Creationists get hammered on this evidence point all the time so why can you use it?
I wouldn't expect the Ark to survive over 4,000 years anyway, although a low oxygen, cold environment would be a great place to preserve wood (which can be found at 11,000 feet).
But, I do agree, even if the ark is found and is to be in complete size and shape as described on Ararat, it doesn't necessarily PROVE God. All it would be is another cooberating piece of evidence to go along with the others that have been found support at least the historicity of the OT and the Bible in general, nothing more.
The bible is an historical document that has proven a lot of itself true. I don't care how many foam-at-the-mouth atheists say otherwise. That being said, not all of it is true.
I mean, can you imagine if the ark is ever found and it's even remotely proven to be close to the actual ark the pilgrimages of idiots that will throng to this thing to literally worship it like it's God itself??
Very true. May they all die of hypothermia... I'm kidding!

"Political correctness is tyranny with manners." -- Charlton Heston

This message is a reply to:
 Message 55 by Flyer75, posted 04-29-2010 2:05 PM Flyer75 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 60 by Rahvin, posted 04-29-2010 2:32 PM Hyroglyphx has replied
 Message 68 by PsychMJC, posted 04-29-2010 4:42 PM Hyroglyphx has replied
 Message 74 by cavediver, posted 05-03-2010 5:18 PM Hyroglyphx has not replied

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 64 of 88 (558057)
04-29-2010 3:14 PM
Reply to: Message 60 by Rahvin
04-29-2010 2:32 PM


Re: Think you're wrong on this one..
Just because Jericho actually existed doesn't mean that the Biblical story of its destruction was in any way accurate, any more than the existence of Troy makes the Illiad an accurate historical document.
And that's really my only point. Even if this is the Ark, so what? Until there are the remains of every single animal on planet earth, it would remain to be a small, insignificant victory for creationists everywhere.

"Political correctness is tyranny with manners." -- Charlton Heston

This message is a reply to:
 Message 60 by Rahvin, posted 04-29-2010 2:32 PM Rahvin has not replied

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 65 of 88 (558060)
04-29-2010 3:27 PM
Reply to: Message 61 by Flyer75
04-29-2010 2:57 PM


Re: Think you're wrong on this one..
The Bible was written by 40 authors over a span of thousands of years. If you really get down and study the historicity of the Bible and archeology, it's fascinating and nothing shy of miraculous the amount of evidence that verifies the history of the Bible.
Why would that be any more miraculous than say Strabo or Pliny the Younger? The bible is only a bible because a group declared it "The Bible." It otherwise is a collection of books, most being independent of one another, some being contemporaneous.
The Iliad was written around 800 B.C. and the earliest copy that has been found was dated around 400 B.C, thus a 400 year time gap. 643 copies have been found of the Iliad. Contrast that with the NT where the earliest copies found were around 70-100 AD (some say 50 AD but I'll error in caution) with time gaps of only 50-225 years with 5366 copies/fragments having been found. The NT will stand up historically with any classic written such as Herodotus' "History", Caesar's "Gallic Wars" and Tacitus' "Annals".
But so what? I don't know anyone claiming that the books of the bible are forgeries. I think everyone agrees that they are indeed old, ancient if you will. They just don't believe the stories that defy physics or credibility.
Obviously the Dead Sea Scrolls were a huge find for the OT along with the Lachish Letters which completely verify almost the whole book of Jeremiah.
It was a huge find insofar as you could say that the books contained within the scrolls (most not being found in the bible) were not created contemporaneously. Scribes have existed for thousands of years, transposing what they believe was the Word of God, preserving it until now. As far as dedication to the literature, I am impressed. Beyond that, it doesn't tell me anything substantive and it certainly doesn't give it authority just because its "old."

"Political correctness is tyranny with manners." -- Charlton Heston

This message is a reply to:
 Message 61 by Flyer75, posted 04-29-2010 2:57 PM Flyer75 has not replied

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 72 of 88 (558196)
04-30-2010 8:42 AM
Reply to: Message 68 by PsychMJC
04-29-2010 4:42 PM


Clarifying positions
[qs]What I like best about this response is that you don't go babbling on about real arks and fake arks and fishing boats in mountains when Flyer75 assumes basically the same thing I did. You let his reaction to the OP be based on, *GASP* the OP! Not some goofy version of as you did when responding to me.
Are you referencing when I asked you why when you said that if it was the actual Ark
quote:
It would certainly help to persuade me. I bet it would bring thousands back to the church.
You're right, people probably would start going to church over it. I was simply pointing out the ridiculousness of doing so based only on that. The reasons are specious.

"Political correctness is tyranny with manners." -- Charlton Heston

This message is a reply to:
 Message 68 by PsychMJC, posted 04-29-2010 4:42 PM PsychMJC has not replied

  
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