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Author | Topic: Fossils, strata and the flood | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Kitsune Member (Idle past 4300 days) Posts: 788 From: Leicester, UK Joined: |
Honeydarling, you're ignoring just about every point everyone has made on this thread. The only thing you said in reply to Message 84 is that Coragyps don't know what he's talkin' about. This is, I think, the most blatant example I've ever seen of a creationist talking nonsense about something they don't understand, then claiming they presented some devastating evidence at some undisclosed time that everyone missed or couldn't deal with.
You're a funny gal.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Are you seriously saying that you think it is supposed to magically appear out of nowhere, collect for millions of years and then suddenly get eroded? No, dear, what I am saying is that if geological theory is correct that is what MUST have happened. They don't think it happened but it is what MUST have happened if it all built up slowly over billions of years. It is what MUST have happened if you actually LOOK at the depth of the strata all over the earth, their neat horizontality and parallel form, and then THINK for a change. That is, it just went on a-building until "recent" time when suddenly all the tectonic and weathering forces happened. Never happened before. IF their theory is correct. Just LOOK and THINK. Stop yammering and LOOK and THINK. But of course it isn't correct. It COULDN'T have happened that way. The strata COULDN'T have taken billions of years to form. The only thing that accounts for the obvious neatness of the strata to such a depth is a worldwide Flood. Edited by Faith, : No reason given.
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Faith  Suspended Member (Idle past 1444 days) Posts: 35298 From: Nevada, USA Joined: |
Why don't you THINK for a change, honey darlin?
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Admin Director Posts: 12998 From: EvC Forum Joined: Member Rating: 2.3 |
Hi Faith,
This was your entire message:
Faith writes: Why don't you THINK for a change, honey darlin? I've sent you PM's, I've posted general notes to the threads, and I even posted a message to you in one of your threads. I need you to work toward not allowing threads to descend into bickering and to keep the focus on the topic. I can't think of anything else I can do but to suspend you for 24 hours. See you tomorrow. Edited by Admin, : Grammar.
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lyx2no Member (Idle past 4716 days) Posts: 1277 From: A vast, undifferentiated plane. Joined: |
San Andreas Fault NO STRATA Did the flood not make it to California, Faith? It is known there are geologic formations that do not have strata. That does not imply that there are not geological formations that do have strata. You need to deal with the many images from Mars that do have strata. That can not be done by showing us images from Mars that do not have strata. "Mom! Ban Ki-moon made a non-binding resolution at me." Mohmoud Ahmadinejad
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Coragyps Member (Idle past 735 days) Posts: 5553 From: Snyder, Texas, USA Joined: |
Faith:
While you are off, give a little thought to this: are sediments accumulating today in an identical fashion out by the oil blowout near Louisiana as they are in Iowa? Doesn't it seem possible that there were places being eroded in Iowa and other places collecting those erosional products, off Louisiana, a thousand years ago? And if so, why not some different places eroding and collecting a million years ago? A billion? "The wretched world lies now under the tyranny of foolishness; things are believed by Christians of such absurdity as no one ever could aforetime induce the heathen to believe." - Agobard of Lyons, ca. 830 AD |
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Apothecus Member (Idle past 2411 days) Posts: 275 From: CA USA Joined: |
There's nothing to dodge, dear. The obvious glaringly conspicuous point I'm making about how the strata had to have been formed makes all such questions irrelevant. Aaaaannnd...dodge #16. You've demonstrated my point on your own better than I ever could, Faith. Have a good one.
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1405 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined:
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Hi Flyer75, sorry for the delay - yesterday was too nice to spend indoors.
I have zero clue what the age or lifespan of a shell could be. Is that what we are referring to here or is it something else? If it is actual age, why could there NOT be more then one or more generations found together from one major event? There are two basic issues here: the age of the shells when fossilized and whether mature shells on mountains are evidence of a flood. The Age of the Shells
Dr. John Whitmore, in his article Should Fragile Shells Be Common in the Fossil Record? states:
quote: Curiously, the problem Dr. John Whitmore ignores, is that EITHER:
Dr. John Whitmore's simplistic concept does not explain the different ages of the shells prior to burial that are much too old ("10s, 100s, or even 1000s of years old"). The actual evidence shows that shells are of many different ages, often much older than they should be according to the claim that all such shells are "dissolve in sea water or are consumed by other organisms" and that, especially in the case of fragile shells, this normally occurs in less than a year unless the shells are buried and uncovered and buried again. Therefore multiple independent burials occurred. The simple fact of burial does not tell us the degree, scope or extent of the burial in question, as it does not distinguish one event from the other, and thus it is not evidence that it was global rather than local. Further, if there are more than one burial event then ONE at least must be local, and if EACH ONE is indistinguishable from the others, THEN they are all likely events of similar degree, scope or extent. Multiple local burial events explain the evidence much better than one single burial event. Are mature shells on mountains evidence of a flood? The noachin myth says the flood lasted less than 1 year, correct? So any evidence for the flood could only occur during that period of time. The problem once again is that EITHER:
Again, the actual evidence shows that shells of sessile organisms much older than 1 year occur in multiple layers, on mountain after mountain (including Everest). These fossils all show that the organisms involved lived for much more than 1 year, and that generation after generation of such organisms lived in a mature fully developed ecology. The evidence shows that this occurred multiple times in many different locations. Therefore they are evidence that each location was underwater for hundreds to thousands of years, at several different times. Further, if there are different numbers (all more than one)of underwater events in different locations, then ONE at least must be local, and if EACH ONE is indistinguishable from the others, THEN they are all likely events of similar degree, scope or extent. Multiple eon long duration underwater events explain the evidence much better than one single short year underwater event. Conclusions The evidence shows multiple burials has resulted in shells of different ages being fossilized, including shells that are much older than would occur if they were not buried. A single flood of 1 year or less duration does not explain the evidence of shells that are much older than would occur if they were not buried. The evidence shows multiple layers of mature ecosystems along with shells of sessile organisms that are much older than 1 year old, and that they grew over periods of many generations, for hundreds to thousands of years duration. A single flood of 1 year or less duration does not explain the evidence of generations of shell growth, with individual shells that are much older than could occur in 1 year in each generation. Enjoy. we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand Rebel American Zen Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. • • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •
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DrJones* Member Posts: 2284 From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada Joined: Member Rating: 6.8 |
FYI the image of the Valles Marines isn't an actual photo but a CGI rendering of the topographical data collected by the Mars Global Surveyor. There is no reason to expect it to show any strata that may or may not be there.
It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds soon I discovered that this rock thing was true Jerry Lee Lewis was the devil Jesus was an architect previous to his career as a prophet All of a sudden i found myself in love with the world And so there was only one thing I could do Was ding a ding dang my dang along ling long - Jesus Built my Hotrod Ministry Live every week like it's Shark Week! - Tracey Jordan Just a monkey in a long line of kings. - Matthew Good If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist! - Get Your War On *not an actual doctor
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Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 284 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: |
It is what MUST have happened if you actually LOOK at the depth of the strata all over the earth, their neat horizontality and parallel form, and then THINK for a change. But this is not what the rocks look like. This is what I was talking about. You are not merely providing a failed explanation for what the rocks actually look like, you are providing a failed explanation for what you imagine that the rocks look like in the fantasy world in your head. And then you have the gall to appeal to us, in capital letters, to "LOOK" at the rocks. Hey, Faith, there are people who've spent their whole adult lifetimes LOOKing at the rocks. Not at your fantasies about rocks, but at the actual rocks. They're called geologists. You wanna guess how wrong they think you are?
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Percy Member Posts: 22392 From: New Hampshire Joined: Member Rating: 5.3 |
Faith writes: It is what MUST have happened if you actually LOOK at the depth of the strata all over the earth, their neat horizontality and parallel form, and then THINK for a change. Relative to your belief that strata all over the Earth exhibit "neat horizontality and parallel form," here are some images. Click on them to enlarge. First, just to make sure you understand there's no claim that there's no such thing as horizontal and neatly parallel strata, here's an image of strata from the Grand Canyon. Obviously these strata are largely undisturbed by tectonic forces:
Now here are some images of strata that do not exhibit "neat horizontality and parallel form" and that have been greatly affected by tectonic forces like uplift, faulting, shearing and so forth:
Perhaps we could discuss this picture evidence and its implications for the viability of flood geology. --Percy
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Kitsune Member (Idle past 4300 days) Posts: 788 From: Leicester, UK Joined: |
The following is not possible if the world is 6000 years old and all strata were deposited by one catastrophic flood.
It is also not possible if all strata were gradually deposited and not eroded or metamorphosed until the sudden recent carving of canyons. IMO another explanation is required. I propose geology.
(ABE) Percy, beat me to it Edited by Kitsune, : No reason given. Edited by Kitsune, : No reason given.
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Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 284 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: |
First, just to make sure you understand there's no claim that there's no such thing as horizontal and neatly parallel strata, here's an image of strata from the Grand Canyon. Actually, they're not really horizontal, just nearly horizontal, and what you're looking at is more complicated and interesting than you think it is. So, yeah, I (in association with every geologist in the world) claim that those are not actually horizontal strata laid down in succession one after the other.
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Dr Adequate Member (Idle past 284 days) Posts: 16113 Joined: |
Great picture. Says it all really, doesn't it?
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RAZD Member (Idle past 1405 days) Posts: 20714 From: the other end of the sidewalk Joined: |
Another good one is Ayers Rock
Which also shows wind erosion patterns similar to those seen in the Grand Canyon upper tiers. Enjoy. we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand Rebel American Zen Deist ... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ... to share. • • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •
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