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Author Topic:   Christian Laws
Richh
Member (Idle past 3763 days)
Posts: 94
From: Long Island, New York
Joined: 07-21-2009


Message 372 of 392 (535492)
11-16-2009 10:32 AM
Reply to: Message 369 by purpledawn
11-06-2009 5:59 AM


Re: Interpretation
Regarding the second part of your post about the Greeks following the Jewish law, I’m not sure whether you mean the ‘national’ law of the Jews or the Mosaic Law, the religious law of the Jews. I will assume the later. I thought of several instances of what you say: 1) circumcision, 2) animal, or I will call them ‘typical’, sacrifices and 3) dietary ordinances. I will take the first one in this post.
There was a sharp contention in the early church about circumcision of Gentile converts. The contention was regarding the relationship of the Gentiles to the Mosaic Law and, perhaps, the necessity of the Gentiles becoming Jews (being circumcised) in order to receive salvation. Acts and Galatians mention this incident. Galatians deals extensively with Paul’s warning to the Galatians not to turn the Jewish legal system signified by receiving circumcision as it was attended by the principle of justification by works of law.
Acts 15:1 And some men came down from Judea and began teaching the brethren, "Unless you are circumcised according to the custom of Moses, you cannot be saved." 2 And when Paul and Barnabas had great dissension and debate with them, the brethren determined that Paul and Barnabas and certain others of them should go up to Jerusalem to the apostles and elders concerning this issue.
Galatians 2:3 But not even Titus who was with me, though he was a Greek, was compelled to be circumcised. 4 But it was because of the false brethren who had sneaked in to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, in order to bring us into bondage. 5 But we did not yield in subjection to them for even an hour, so that the truth of the gospel might remain with you.
The conclusion of the issue was that circumcision was not enjoined on the Gentiles. The conclusion was not based on whether or not the Jews were a reigning nation. I'm not sure if there is a definitive answer about circumcision of Jewish followers of Jesus as Paul circumcised Timothy.
Paul does give a spiritual application of circumcision - applicable to all Christians.
Colossians 2:11 and in Him you were also circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, in the removal of the body of the flesh by the circumcision of Christ.
By the way, if I understand it right, I say peshat too (most of the time).

This message is a reply to:
 Message 369 by purpledawn, posted 11-06-2009 5:59 AM purpledawn has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 373 by jaywill, posted 11-25-2009 10:26 AM Richh has not replied

  
Richh
Member (Idle past 3763 days)
Posts: 94
From: Long Island, New York
Joined: 07-21-2009


Message 374 of 392 (558977)
05-05-2010 11:26 PM
Reply to: Message 370 by jaywill
11-07-2009 11:51 AM


Re: Interpretation
I was looking at a few comentators on the verses you mentioned and all of them understand 'the law of commandments in ordinances' to refer to the entire law of Moses. It is hard to make the word 'ordinances' stand for only the non-moral laws, like the dietary laws and the law of circumcision, etc., especially when modified by 'the law of commandments in'.
There is another possible solution to this seeming contradiction in the Bible besides the one mentioned by you which is noted in a footnote in the Recovery Version on Eph. 2:15. The contradiction being a) Jesus came to fulfill the law and not one tittle of the law will fall away until all is fulfilled and yet b) Paul says that He abolished the law of commandments in ordinances.
The other possible solution is to construe 'abolish' as 'made of no effect'. This is an acceptable translation and can be seen in the word 'annulled' in Rom 6:6 'Knowing this, that our old man has been crucified with Him in order that the body of sin might be annulled, that we should no longer serve sin as slaves;'
We know that the best we can hope for now is for 'body of sin' to be made of no effect. We know it is not abolished because it is still there and can easily affect us.
Paul describes in Romans 7 how the law becomes 'of no effect' to the woman - the husband dies and he reiterates the same thought in Gal 2:19 'For I through law have died to law that I might live to God.'
How does this strike you?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 370 by jaywill, posted 11-07-2009 11:51 AM jaywill has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 375 by jaywill, posted 05-06-2010 12:04 PM Richh has replied

  
Richh
Member (Idle past 3763 days)
Posts: 94
From: Long Island, New York
Joined: 07-21-2009


Message 377 of 392 (561988)
05-24-2010 11:00 PM
Reply to: Message 375 by jaywill
05-06-2010 12:04 PM


Re: Interpretation
One thing is for sure - justification is not by law or by 'works of law', but but grace through faith.
Gal. 5:4 You have been brought to nought, separated from Christ, you who are being justified by law; you have fallen from grace.
Rom. 3:20 Because out of the works of the law no flesh shall be justified before Him; for through the law is the clear knowledge of sin... 3:24 Being justified freely by His grace through the redemption which is in Christ Jesus; 3:28 For we account that a man is justified by faith apart from the works of the law.
And yet this free, gracious, righteous justification does not nullify the law, but establishes it!
Rom. 3:31 Do we then make the law of no effect through faith? Absolutely not! Rather, we establish the law.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 375 by jaywill, posted 05-06-2010 12:04 PM jaywill has not replied

  
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