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Author Topic:   Can anything exist for an infinite time or outside of time?
DarkMatter
Junior Member (Idle past 5053 days)
Posts: 4
From: Phoenix, Az
Joined: 05-01-2010


Message 91 of 158 (559014)
05-06-2010 6:23 AM
Reply to: Message 80 by DPowell
05-05-2010 4:06 PM


Re: First Cause
DPowell writes:
The point I want to establish is simply the difficulty in saying "In the beginning." The reason behind that is that everything we are familiar with is a product of causation.
We only see things that begun to exist or had been cause to exist forming out of what already existed. Have you ever heard the saying that We are made of star stuff? Well it is important when trying to really understand if they is a real beginning or causation to anything. Because all of the elements that make up who we are is believed to have been part of a star at some point. A star that had only been made up of hydrogen, helium, and lithium. A star was producing heavy element's and when it exploded and scattered those elements, which later became our current star, the earth and other planets in our solar system. And from those elements that our own planet was made up of, yet again formed something else. That which we call life. And that life eventually led to us. And really in the end, we are physically is nothing more than arrangement of atoms... Atoms that once, had been part of a star.
All that happened was that the matter had been rearranged from one form into another.
Now if I take some rock and take out just the iron and then make something out of the iron like a hammer or a sword. All I did was take something that already existed and created something different. Sure it. There may have never been a sword or hammer before that, but all I did is create a new form of an existing form.
So from what we observe when it comes to things causing other things to exist from things that previously existed. Then we can safely assume that there is a pretty good chance that something could exist without a beginning or a cause. And it does not to be a God. Especially when there is something that we believe that cannot be created nor destroyed. Which implies that it was not created or had a beginning but always existed in some form (It does not mean it was not created by God but it does show that if their happens to be no God that their can be things in the natural world could have always existed. See below).
DPowell writes:
Try to name something in your world/life that is not directly/indirectly caused by something(s).
Energy can neither be created nor destroyed (See: The first law of thermodynamics).
DPowell writes:
The ultimate question comes down to what is the FIRST Cause.
See: Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle. And theory of the big-bang
Edited by DarkMatter, : No reason given.
Edited by DarkMatter, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 80 by DPowell, posted 05-05-2010 4:06 PM DPowell has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 95 by DPowell, posted 05-06-2010 2:06 PM DarkMatter has replied

  
DarkMatter
Junior Member (Idle past 5053 days)
Posts: 4
From: Phoenix, Az
Joined: 05-01-2010


Message 116 of 158 (559174)
05-07-2010 9:28 AM
Reply to: Message 95 by DPowell
05-06-2010 2:06 PM


Re: First Cause
DPowell writes:
The First Law of Thermodynamics has been overturned in the nuclear age. The consensus is that, in fact, matter can be destroyed.
First; I said energy not matter when I spoke of The First Law of Thermodynamics.
Second; Matter is not destroyed, it is just converted to energy. And energy and matter are just different forms of the same thing . Have you ever heard of Einstein's famous, E = mc2 ?
Besides you said; Try to name something in your world/life that is not directly/indirectly caused by something(s). And Not; Try to name something that in your world/life that is not directly/indirectly destroyed by something(s)
So my original point remains.
Edited by DarkMatter, : No reason given.
Edited by DarkMatter, : No reason given.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 95 by DPowell, posted 05-06-2010 2:06 PM DPowell has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 145 by DPowell, posted 10-06-2010 11:32 PM DarkMatter has not replied

  
DarkMatter
Junior Member (Idle past 5053 days)
Posts: 4
From: Phoenix, Az
Joined: 05-01-2010


Message 118 of 158 (559199)
05-07-2010 11:30 AM
Reply to: Message 98 by DPowell
05-06-2010 2:12 PM


Re: First Cause
DPowell writes:
And your empirical evidence against the existence of God was...? Please play by your own rules.
Here let us turn that around: and your empirical evidence against the existence of Thor was....?
It is not up to anybody provide evidence against the claim that there is a God. Sure there can be a God or Gods. Just like there may be teapot orbiting VY Canis Majoris. However because there is always a chance does not mean that somebody needs to provide any empirical evidence against the existence God. It is the job of the person making the claim must provide evidence for their claim.
So if you want somebody to believe in God, then perhaps you should think about providing empirical evidence for that God. Because as it stands. It is really not hard to see how people lack of belief in your God. When the responsibilities of that God according to the Bible are;
1, creating the universe
2, creating the sun/moon
3, creating our planet
4, creating life
5, creating your consciousness (or soul)
6, controlling events including weather, disease, famine, plague
And nothing supernatural is required to explain any of them. So the question is, what is God's job? So it is not hard to see how anybody could lack of belief in God when God is not required to explain what is above. And if God is not needed to explain them. Then why should anybody believe?
Edited by DarkMatter, : Changed a word that was used.
Edited by DarkMatter, : Had to change a word.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 98 by DPowell, posted 05-06-2010 2:12 PM DPowell has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 127 by DPowell, posted 10-04-2010 11:48 PM DarkMatter has not replied

  
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