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Author Topic:   Can anything exist for an infinite time or outside of time?
hooah212002
Member (Idle past 822 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 63 of 158 (557787)
04-27-2010 10:38 PM
Reply to: Message 61 by DPowell
04-27-2010 9:10 PM


Re: First Cause
The difference between games and movies and the history of being is that the first two are finite events while the course of history hints strongly of an infinitude. Finite events exist at points in the course of historical time. However, as we trace back chronological events to our eventual starting point that we label as the *beginning* we are left with the haunting sense that it could not simply be the beginning. For instance, the Big Bang Theory would represent an absolute beginning point for the existence of everything in the Universe. But we are left to ask questions like, "What was going on before the Big Bang (when all of the matter/energy in the Universe were supposedly consolidated into a singularity of space)? How long was stuff going on before the Big Bang? What CAUSED the Big Bang (because in our understanding of history, things do not simply happen un-caused...exempting quantum mechanics for the time being).
There are a number of theories that are trying to explain this using science. Just saying "goddidit" and stopping there does nothing for us.
It makes far more sense to say that before stuff started happening and history began was the existence of the eternal (outside of time), infinite God who then caused everything else in history to have its beginning.
Like Oni said: no, it doesn't. This "god" you speak of? yea, it's a figment of your imagination until you unequivocally prove it's existence. I have my own hypotheses about how x-tianity has withstood the test of time, but that's not for this thread.
You see, we are ever closer to viewing t=0. Especially with Hubble's replacement. We see that the universe is expanding, ever faster from a singularity: which points to a beginning. Yet, through all of the cosmological images that have been beamed down from the nether regions of space: NO GOD. He sure likes to hide, eh?
Edited by hooah212002, : spelling

"Some people think God is an outsized, light-skinned male with a long white beard, sitting on a throne somewhere up there in the sky, busily tallying the fall of every sparrow. Othersfor example Baruch Spinoza and Albert Einsteinconsidered God to be essentially the sum total of the physical laws which describe the universe. I do not know of any compelling evidence for anthropomorphic patriarchs controlling human destiny from some hidden celestial vantage point, but it would be madness to deny the existence of physical laws."-Carl Sagan
"Show me where Christ said "Love thy fellow man, except for the gay ones." Gay people, too, are made in my God's image. I would never worship a homophobic God." -Desmond Tutu

This message is a reply to:
 Message 61 by DPowell, posted 04-27-2010 9:10 PM DPowell has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 86 by DPowell, posted 05-06-2010 1:06 AM hooah212002 has replied

  
hooah212002
Member (Idle past 822 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 67 of 158 (557991)
04-29-2010 8:09 AM
Reply to: Message 66 by Natural_Design
04-28-2010 11:08 PM


Welcome to EvC. We don't get may Muslim's around here.
Can I have some of what you are smoking?

"Some people think God is an outsized, light-skinned male with a long white beard, sitting on a throne somewhere up there in the sky, busily tallying the fall of every sparrow. Othersfor example Baruch Spinoza and Albert Einsteinconsidered God to be essentially the sum total of the physical laws which describe the universe. I do not know of any compelling evidence for anthropomorphic patriarchs controlling human destiny from some hidden celestial vantage point, but it would be madness to deny the existence of physical laws."-Carl Sagan
"Show me where Christ said "Love thy fellow man, except for the gay ones." Gay people, too, are made in my God's image. I would never worship a homophobic God." -Desmond Tutu

This message is a reply to:
 Message 66 by Natural_Design, posted 04-28-2010 11:08 PM Natural_Design has not replied

  
hooah212002
Member (Idle past 822 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 71 of 158 (558071)
04-29-2010 5:35 PM
Reply to: Message 68 by Natural_Design
04-29-2010 3:09 PM


I almost vomited about 10 times too. I felt so powerless to the Universe.
I think someone laced some of whatever you were smoking if that all happened to you. Or, where I'm from, you are what we call a "rookie". Unless you're talking Salvia. That's a different story. Still just the drug though. No deity required.
Edited by hooah212002, : No reason given.

"Some people think God is an outsized, light-skinned male with a long white beard, sitting on a throne somewhere up there in the sky, busily tallying the fall of every sparrow. Othersfor example Baruch Spinoza and Albert Einsteinconsidered God to be essentially the sum total of the physical laws which describe the universe. I do not know of any compelling evidence for anthropomorphic patriarchs controlling human destiny from some hidden celestial vantage point, but it would be madness to deny the existence of physical laws."-Carl Sagan
"Show me where Christ said "Love thy fellow man, except for the gay ones." Gay people, too, are made in my God's image. I would never worship a homophobic God." -Desmond Tutu

This message is a reply to:
 Message 68 by Natural_Design, posted 04-29-2010 3:09 PM Natural_Design has not replied

  
hooah212002
Member (Idle past 822 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


Message 92 of 158 (559031)
05-06-2010 9:15 AM
Reply to: Message 86 by DPowell
05-06-2010 1:06 AM


Re: First Cause
This is the science forum dude. Usage of bible verses to prove anything doesn't cut it, since they can't be proven unless you cite the bible. It's called circular logic.
Since you admit you have no empirical evidence for god, you might want to try a different thread.

"The Bible was written to show us how to go to heaven, not how the heavens go" -Galileao

This message is a reply to:
 Message 86 by DPowell, posted 05-06-2010 1:06 AM DPowell has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 98 by DPowell, posted 05-06-2010 2:12 PM hooah212002 has replied

  
hooah212002
Member (Idle past 822 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


(1)
Message 108 of 158 (559108)
05-06-2010 4:25 PM
Reply to: Message 98 by DPowell
05-06-2010 2:12 PM


Re: First Cause
And your empirical evidence against the existence of God was...? Please play by your own rules.
Such a short sentence, so many fallacies.
The onus is on you to provide empirical evidence for your magick sky daddy. I'm quite certain this has been told to you already. If YOU make an extraordinary claim (like the one you are making that there is some sort of god fellow roaming the sky, waiting for you to come hang out with him) then YOU need to prove it empirically, not I. Reading from a source (the bible) that itself has no hard evidence of it's asserted claims is also not acceptable. That is called circular logic.
If I told you I had a Tyrannosaurus Rex in my room, would you have to prove I did not? Or would it fall on me to show you that I did? Would you accept someone else writing down that they heard someone who knew a guy that said he saw it?
Again, we have a faith and belief section where you can quote bible scripture until you bleed from you palms. Here, you are posting in the science section. Either provide data, along with sound reasoned arguments, or stop posting in this section. (tits or gtfo)
Also: It would also be preferential for you to add a bit more than 1 liners to your responses. The text of this forum will remain here quite a bit longer than you will be posting here, so you DO have sufficient time to attempt to refute any and all responses.

"The Bible was written to show us how to go to heaven, not how the heavens go" -Galileao

This message is a reply to:
 Message 98 by DPowell, posted 05-06-2010 2:12 PM DPowell has seen this message but not replied

  
hooah212002
Member (Idle past 822 days)
Posts: 3193
Joined: 08-12-2009


(1)
Message 109 of 158 (559109)
05-06-2010 4:33 PM
Reply to: Message 106 by DPowell
05-06-2010 3:18 PM


Re: First Cause
What do you think on this matter? Let's say that God exists (just for discussion's sake); He is infinitely large (in fact, beyond space), infinitely ancient (in fact, outside of time), and Spirit rather than body. How, by scientific methods, do you propose that we prove or attempt to disprove His existence?
This is not the thread for that. This is not the section of the forum for that either. Go start a new thread or join in on one that is already started.

"The Bible was written to show us how to go to heaven, not how the heavens go" -Galileao

This message is a reply to:
 Message 106 by DPowell, posted 05-06-2010 3:18 PM DPowell has seen this message but not replied

  
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