Creation as presented in Genesis chapters 1 and 2

Your view requires the listing of people at the end of Gen. 4:

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25 And Adam knew his wife again; and she bare a son, and called his name Seth: For God, said she, hath appointed me another seed instead of Abel, whom Cain slew.

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26 And to Seth, to him also there was born a son; and he called his name Enos: then began men to call upon the name of the LORD.

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and the listing of people which immediately follows in Gen. 5:

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4 And the days of Adam after he had begotten Seth were eight hundred years: and he begat sons and daughters:

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5 And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died.

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6 And Seth lived an hundred and five years, and begat Enos:

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to be completely different people even thought they have the exact same names in the same order, presented back-to-back from one chapter to the next.This ridiculousness refutes your view.

Slight meandering:"Evening and morning" ... while retaining some empirical conatations can befit my/your YEC or EOC scheme(s).Not to strawman the issue, but: To call oneself a YEC in diurnal time and an OEC in radiometric time seems non-fallacious ...We all adhere to clocks in our puny understanding of "evening and morning". Is there really such a thing as "real time"? Just what is "real time"The 6 days (of creation?) that followed Gen 1.1 ... certainly contain creation design terms ... at least as a child or scientist might readily discern.Besides, time is relative to both the speed of light and God's omnipotence (and other factors)IOWs, "evening and morning" seem to contain metaphysical and perceptual implications that are outside the Newtonian and Einsteinian realms of science.(Off topic: Genesis 1 is one of the few chapters I've memorized ... Genesis 1 quenches my scientific thirst of origins ... but requires the whole chapter model in addition to vs 1 ... each of the 6 days explains events that answer my hardest scientific inquiries.)

Hi CS, Why?The only reason I would have to include them is because Stephen Langton, an Archbishop of Canterbury, put the modern chapter divisions into place in around A.D. 1227.Was he inspired to divide the text as Moses was to record it.I am not sure he was not inspired by his own teachings and biases.Because there is nothing that connects Genesis 4:25, 26 to the preceeding verses as a long period had expired since the man created from the dust of the earth had his two sons.The preceeding verses had covered the life of Cain and his descendants where a city was built covering 8 generations.The man in Genesis 5:3 was 120 years old when his son Seth was born.If he had a son named Cain how old was he when he was born?If he had a son named Abel how old was he when he was born?Genesis 4:25 has no conjunction at the beginning of the verse to connect it to anything. IOW there is no 'and' there.Moses used yacaph in Genesis 4:2 when he stated: "And she again bare his brother Abel." That 'and' is not in the original either.yacaph means 1) to add, increase, do again.So if he was talking about the same thing why did he use `owd in 4:25 which means 1) a going round.Hebrew linage is traced through the first born.In Genesis chapter 4 you have the linage of the man formed from the dust of the earth through his firstborn son Cain.In Genesis chapter 5 you have the linage of the man who was created at the same time as the woman, both in the image of God through his firstborn son Seth.You have refuted nothing, as your assertions are only assertions.A good start would be to take the texts and show how 4:25 which follows the linnage of Cain after 8 generations and the man in chapter 5 is still only 120 years old when his son Seth was born if he and Cain had the same father.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

There was light in the universe, but not on the earth as genesis 1.2. tellls us "there was darkness upon the surface of the waters"how could there be darkness? Perhaps because the earth was covered by a thick blanket of atmosphere that did not allow light to penetrate.If you look at some other translators notes, they make a point about how the light 'gradually' came into existence. It wasnt instant as if God flicked a switch. J.W. Watts in a Distinctive Translation of Genesis puts it this way And gradually light came into existence. And the Rotherhams emphasised bible calls it light diffused, in the footnote comment about verse 3. So the sources of light (sun/moon) could not be seen because something was blocking it out thus causing the surface of the waters to exist in darkness. exactly....yet if the days in genesis are literal, why did the 7th day not begin with an evening and end with a morning like the previous 6? Yom (Hebrew) A day; by extension an age or time period. Gen 1 uses the first instance of Yom to refere only to the light portion of the day....this is only 12 hours in length.Gen 1 also calls the light itself 'day'....so this doesnt even have anything to do with 'time'In Gen 8:22 it calls the 'eternity' of the earth 'days'
For all the days the earth continues, seed sowing and harvest, and cold and heat, and summer and winter, and day and night, will never cease.the Hebrews began their day in the evening but they sometimes spoke of it as if beginning in the morning. Leviticus 7:15 says: The flesh of the thanksgiving sacrifice of his communion sacrifices is to be eaten on the day of his offering. He must not save up any of it until morning.
The sacrifice had to be eating overnight, yet the word yom/day was used instead of 'evening' as you would expect. this shows that yom is being used figuratively for night.Sometimes ‘day and night’ only meant a portion of a solar day of 24 hours as Matthew 12:40 shows. Jesus spent only 1 full day (sat) and 2 half days (fri & Sun) in the tomb yet they were called 3 days.there is also the exression of a day in terms of measuring distances at Numbers 11:31And a wind burst forth from Jehovah and began driving quails from the sea and letting them fall above the camp about a day’s journey this way and about a day’s journey that way, all around the camp, and about two cubits above the surface of the earthAnd again in prophecy we see how a 'day' is used to stand for one year. Ezekiel 4:6: You must lie upon your right side in the second case, and you must carry the error of the house of Judah forty days. A day for a year, a day for a year, is what I have given you.
And at Numbers 14:34.
for forty days you spied out the land, you will answer for your errors a day for a year, forty years i have given youDay is also used with reference to the lifetime of a particular person as is seen at Luke 17:26
Moreover, just as it occurred in the days of Noah, so it will be also in the days of the Son of man
AND Isaiah 1:1 
The vision of Isaiah the son of A′moz that he visioned concerning Judah and Jerusalem in the days of Uz‧zi′ah, Jo′tham, A′haz [and] Hez‧e‧ki′ah, kings of JudahThere are so many figurative uses of the word day in the bible that it surprises me no one mentions them. I guess if you are looking for the literal uses of the word its easy to bypass the figurative uses. by listening to and learning from those who have been born again. They are guided by spirit to reveal truth and I am more then happy to listen to them. Paul is speaking about people who reject spiritual things...he says "the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him"he's talking about people who do not accept spiritual things but only accept what they see with their eyes. I am not one of them because i do accept the spiritual things. The fact that I am promoting such spiritual things should have indicated as much to you. Edited by Peg, : No reason given.Edited by Peg, : No reason given.

LOLits the new alien coverup conspiracy!

Hi Philip,I take it this was an answer to my post to you. It would be better to use the reply button when answering a post.You asked: Genesis 1:14 tells us God set certain things for signs, seasons, years and days.Early man had a period of light and a period of darkness.Early on mankind figured out that the sun caused a shadow and by that shadow he could divide the light period.Mankind finally came up with the concept of time. Time is determined by the rotation of the earth in relationship to the sun. A year is determined by how long it takes for the earth to circle the sun.Somebody came up with the idea we could divide the revolution of the earth into almost 24 hours which divided nicely into 60 minutes each hour which divided nicely into 60 seconds in each minute. He then devised a machine to measure each second. Since the 50's the oscillation of a Cesium Atom's Microwave has been the standard for a second.So yes as far as mankind is concerned time exists.As far as God is concerned there is only the present He views the beginning and the end all now. Please present those design terms as they are not clear to me. I am neither a child or a scientist so I need convincing that something was (bara) created other than whales, and mankind.I know from verse 1 the heaven and the earth was (bara) created.I know from verse 2 it had become uninhabitable as it was covered with water.I know from verse 3 God caused light to be on the earth. It says nothing about Him (bara) creating the light. He just made it visible.I know from verse 4 God divided the light from the darkness. It was dark on half of the earth and light on the other half of the earth.I know from verse 5 God called the light day and the darkness night. It also tells me a light period and a dark period equals one day.The light period of Genesis 1:1 and the dark period that ended with the light period of the second day was declared the first day.I know from verse 6, 7, and 8 that God separated the waters from the uplifted waters and called that atmosphere heaven. This is where the birds and our airplanes fly.I know from verse 8 the light period that began with the end of the dark period of the first day and ended with the light period of the third day was the second day.I know from verse 9 that God caused all the water to gather in one place and let dry land appear as it is shown in my avatar.I know from verse 10 that God called the dry land earth and the water sea.So far nothing has been created only rearranged.I know from verse 11 that God had the earth bring forth grass, herbs, and fruit trees, from their seed which was upon the earth.I know from verse 12 that the earth obeyed and produced grass, herbs, and fruit trees.I know from verse 13 the light period that began with the end of the dark period of the second day and ended with the light period of the fourth day was the third day.I know from verse 14 and 15 that God caused visible lights in the heavens to be for signs and seasons, days and years and to give light upon the earth.I know from verse 16, 17 and 18 that God caused two great lights to be visible on earth one to rule the day and one to rule the night. He also caused the stars to be visible on earth.Still nothing has been (bara) created they were only made visible on earth.I know from verse 19 the light period that began with the end of the dark period of the third day and ended with the light period of the fifth day was the fourth day.I know from verse 20 that God caused the waters to bring forth water creatures and fowl to fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.Still nothing (bara) created.I know from verse 21 that God (bara) created great whales.The first thing created that was not created in Genesis 1:1.I know from verse 22 that God blessed them and told them to multiply and fill the waters and the fowl to multiply on the earth.I know from verse 23 the light period that began with the end of the dark period of the fourth day and ended with the light period of the sixth day was the fifth day.I know from verse 24 and 25 God called the living creature, cattle, creeping things, and beasts of the earth after their kind. That means they had already existed to come forth after their kind.I know from verse 26 and 27 that God (bara) created mankind in His image male and female He created them. Did He create 2 or a thousand there is no way to know as the scripture does not say. He gave mankind dominion over the creatures on earth.I know from verse 28 God blessed them and told them to be fruitful and multiply and replenish the earth and subdue it.I know from verse 29 that God told them they could eat of every herb bearing seed and every tree that yielded fruit with a seed. No fruit of any tree was forbiden to mankind.I know from verse 30 that the fowl of the air and every thing that creepeth on the earth that every green herb was given for meat.I know from verse 31 the light period that began with the end of the dark period of the fifth day and ended with the light period of the seventh day was the sixth day.On to chapter 2.I know from verse 1 everything was finished.I know from verse 2 that God ceased His preparing and furnishing the earth. God had completed His creative work.I know from verse 3 that God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it. By ceasing His work.That completes the seven days of Moses as recorded in Genesis 1:2 through Genesis 2:3. What does time have to do with the power of God? How can those 6 days explain as they only have the earth as less than 7,000 years old and science has it billions of years old?God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

I prefer not to respond particularly to one person ... as I sort of trolled in via hope of further enlightenment from your struggles)... created (bara)Gen 1:21 And God created ... every living creature that moveth(whether this 'full creation' event (on the 5th day) is an outworking of Gen 1.1, and/or a re-creation, a re-boot, (re-)callibration, and/or a clarification of Gen 1.1, etc. ... I cannot conclude dogmatically.Allow me to concede at that.My faith-hypotheses shift a bit. Now for neat science models that collab/parallel with the 6 days of 'design' ... there are my 'personal hypotheses' (if you will):1) Creation of Matter and Energy == Creation of Heaven and Earth (by loose inferences) ... 1st cause ... etc. ... Gen 1.1 (I know this violates Newton's thermo)2) The phenomenon/mystery of Light (whether created (bara) or not both science and I cannot tell, God knows). Light theories certainly co-exist with matter though. I Gen 1.1, light may have been 'latent' within the matter ... or shining from God ... or both.3) As a podiatric physician I conclude the six days infer incremental levels of either pre-built design (from Gen 1.1) and/or a week with God (as Moses strictly observed the Sabbath-rest).Besides time (as we perceive it) ... the firmaments (cosmic) expansion ... enzymes, plants, fish, fowl, and creeping life ... after there kinds ... on up through humanity ... require God's direct design ... either during or after the creation of Gen 1.1. No ToE can account for these creations.

Hi Peg, Why should I look at some other translators notes as the Holy Spirit reveal those things to me when I was 10 years old. I presented the things I have presented here in a prayer meeting in 1949. I was told I did not know what I was talking about and have been every since so it does not bother me now. Because the 7th day began with the end of the dark period of the sixth day with the light of the seventh day. Moses just did not complete the ending of the day as God said nothing as He was resting. God defined yom in verse 5. as a light period and a dark period when He declared that the first day.God further defined yom in verse 8 when He said the evening of a light period and the morning of the next light period was the second yom. The same verse 5 that declared the light portion was day also declared that light portion and dark portion that followed was the first yom. Time is a concept of man not God. God in verse 5 had a light period He called day. He also added a dark period He called night to the light period which the combination of He called day.If you disagree that God presented yom as I have stated please correct me as to what God said. This verse says day and night will never cease all the days of the earth.If that is not what it says please correct me. The Hebrews began their day in the evening because of their misunderstanding of Genesis 1:5, for no other reason. So you accept the Catholic Church teaching about the crucifiction.Actually Christ was crucified a 9 AM on Wednesday and buried after 3 PM. He was in the earth all night Wed., all day Thur., all night Thur., all day Friday, all night Friday, and most of the day Saturday until the exact time He was placed in the tomb on Wednesday. Three days and three nights exactly 72 hours. Now don't expect me to give you all the particulars of how I know this to be true in this thread we can cover it later in another thread. It is not equating a day with measuring distances.A day's journey was considered to be 20 miles as that is how far a man can walk in a day. Where do you get all this garbage and why can't you understand what is written in the Bible. I forgot it is spiritually deserned, and you are following a bunch of blind people.In Ezekiel the house of Judah had disobeyed and Ezekiel was to lie upon his left side for 390 days and when he finished that to lie on his right side for forty days because of the iniquity of the house of Judah. One day for each year of Judah's iniquity was Ezekiel to lay seige to the city, in this fashion. This says they were to wander a year for each day they searched the land.It does not say a day was equal to a year. When you get in the fifth grade you will probably be able to tell the difference in 1 day which is equal to 24 hours and the days of ICANT which equals 25,960 days which equals 618,968 hours at the present. Oh but you mention them.Maybe nobody else mentions them because they only exist in the mind of Peg.Because you have not presented one instance of a figurative uses yet. I am afraid you have been following people who are worse off than your are. At least you are honest and admit you are following someone who you think is born again. They don't have any idea what the Word of God says. They may know what the Watch Tower says but the Watch Tower is not God even though they claim to be as they are the only ones who know what is right and what is wrong. No Paul is speaking about people who have not been born again and are still a natural man. The natural man will reject the things of the Spirit. The natural man is one who has not been born again.
This man will not accept the things of the Spirit as he is operating in his own strength and understanding. Without the Holy Spirit to lead him and guide him he can have a PHD in everything and still not understand the things of the Spirit.Education is not enough to understand the things of the Bible. I knew a preacher who could not read or write but he could preach some of the most beautiful sermons anyone ever preached. His wife would read the Bible to him and he memorized it.The spiritual man is one who has been born again and has the Holy Spirit to lead him and guide him in all truth.Do not expect to understand the Bible until you are born again.If you keep following the people you have been following that will never happen.I would suggest you go to this website and read the book of John it is a KJV Bible. http://bibledatabase.net/html/kjv/index.htmlBefore you begin to read ask God to give you wisdom and understanding of what you are about to read.Read the first 3 chapters. If you don't understand the scriptures read them every day praying the same prayer before you start until you do understand it. When you understand those three chapters you should read the rest of the book.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

Hi Philip, It says He bara created great whales.Everything else mentioned in that verse was accomplished in verse 20.I don't know if Moses was repeating that or some copyist added it. But the only things created in verse 21 was the whales. Actually large sea monsters. When I get to chapter 2 verse 4 and continue with my message where I stoped in message 36 I think you will understand my concept of creation.I believe there was a creation in Genesis 1:1 and the 7 days of Moses followed in Genesis 1:2-2:3.In the OP Message 1 I stated: "In this thread I will affirm that there are 2 creations presented in Genesis chapter 1 and 2."God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

the fact that Moses mentioned the 7th day along with the previous 6 should tell you that there must have been an evening and morning to it if those days are really literal. The fact that there is no evening and morning to that day should tell everyone that the previous 6 should not be taken literally. the light and the dark periods were one day, just as the light itself was a day and just as the entire 6 days were one day (2:4)the figurative use of the word yom IS being used throughtout the account. literally in hebrew it reads: further all-of days-of theearth seedtime andharvest andcold andwarmth andsummerandwinter andday andnight not they-shall-ceaseSo its not with regard to 'time' but the yom in this verse is actually refering to seasons, to heat, to cold, to day and to night which is showing how Yom is used figuratively. Its not always with regard to a 24 hour day as we know it. because of their misunderstanding??? So they did not understand their own writings but you do??? Wow, thats a big call to make.I think it comes back to genesis 1:2. When God began to work on the earth he called it an evening period, a darkness, as opposed to anything having to do with 'time' or the earths rotation on its axisThe earth began in darkness/evening which is why the hebrews began their day in darkness in acknowledgement of the God as the creator. and this account shows that the quails were being driven by the wind that length up into the air... it is speaking about distance.anyway, judging by your comments on every other verse i've shown, i dont think we are going to get very far with this. You believe the earth was created in 6 literal days and no amount of evidence to the contrary is going to change that so i'll just leave it there. This subject about yom has been going on for so long its time for a change of subject. It makes no difference to me or any other creationist is God made the earth in 6 literal days or not so this is the end of the argument for me.

Therefore Genesis 1:2 through Genesis 2:3 does not explain what took place in Genesis 1:1.---------------------------------------------------------------I Trust my older bible(s), a major creation/design event took place on the 5th day before God rested from all the works. Even the Alexandrian bibles (many listed below) ... state not just sea monsters.New International Version (1984)
So God created the great creatures of the sea and every living and moving thing with which the water teems, according to their kinds, and every winged bird according to its kind. And God saw that it was good.
New Living Translation (2007)
So God created great sea creatures and every living thing that scurries and swarms in the water, and every sort of bird--each producing offspring of the same kind. And God saw that it was good.English Standard Version (2001)
So God created the great sea creatures and every living creature that moves, with which the waters swarm, according to their kinds, and every winged bird according to its kind. And God saw that it was good.New American Standard Bible (1995)
God created the great sea monsters and every living creature that moves, with which the waters swarmed after their kind, and every winged bird after its kind; and God saw that it was good.GOD'S WORD Translation (1995)
So God created the large sea creatures, every type of creature that swims around in the water and every type of flying bird. God saw that they were good.King James Bible
And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.American King James Version
And God created great whales, and every living creature that moves, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.American Standard Version
And God created the great sea-monsters, and every living creature that moveth, wherewith the waters swarmed, after their kind, and every winged bird after its kind: and God saw that it was good.Bible in Basic English
And God made great sea-beasts, and every sort of living and moving thing with which the waters were full, and every sort of winged bird: and God saw that it was good.Douay-Rheims Bible
And God created the great whales, and every living and moving creature, which the waters brought forth, according to their kinds, and every winged fowl according to its kind. And God saw that it was good.Darby Bible Translation
And God created the great sea monsters, and every living soul that moves with which the waters swarm, after their kind, and every winged fowl after its kind. And God saw that it was good.English Revised Version
And God created the great sea-monsters, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kinds, and every winged fowl after its kind: and God saw that it was good.Webster's Bible Translation
And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.World English Bible
God created the large sea creatures, and every living creature that moves, with which the waters swarmed, after their kind, and every winged bird after its kind. God saw that it was good.Young's Literal Translation
And God prepareth the great monsters, and every living creature that is creeping, which the waters have teemed with, after their kind, and every fowl with wing, after its kind, and God seeth that it is good.

Hi Peg, So if I killed a person a day for 6 days and did not kill one on saturday the 7th day that would mean I did not kill any of them. Did the universe exist prior to Genesis 1:2?Did light exist in the universe prior to Genesis 1:2?In Message 34 you said: If the heaven and the earth was created in Genesis 1:1, how could it be created in six days as put forth in your statement? days-of theearth is that one 24 hour period or a plural of 24 hour periods?day andnight Is this the subject of the 24 hour period that will not cease for all those hour periods? Can you give your logic or reasoning and source in Numbers 11:31 where it mentions seasons, heat, and cold?Are you asserting that this verse says there is an extended day that lasts for and undetermined length of time? Was the earth created in Genesis 1:2? So was the distance measured by the length of the day?
or
Was the distance measured by the distance a man could walk in a day which equals a days journey? But I do not now nor have I ever believed the universe was created in 6 days.The heaven and the earth was created in Genesis 1:1 and according to Genesis 2:4 which you referenced it was created in one day.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

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There are so many figurative uses of the word day in the bible that it surprises me no one mentions them. I guess if you are looking for the literal uses of the word its easy to bypass the figurative uses.

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But what you haven't learned and refuse to hear is that just because a word is used figuratively in another sentence doesn't mean it is used figuratively in all sentences.Until you provide the indicators within the sentence that tells us that the figurative meaning of yom is to be used, you're just wasting posts and time.Show me the real indicators, Peg. Keep the yom discussion in the other thread. Don't clutter this one up.ABE: You like figurative and symbols, but didn't even address Message 27. That's straight from what we discovered in another discussion. How does that play into your extended time period?Edited by purpledawn, : ABE

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Scripture is like Newton’s third law of motionfor every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.
In other words, for every biblical directive that exists, there is another scriptural mandate challenging it.
-- Carlene Cross in The Bible and Newton’s Third Law of Motion

Hi Philip, You got some real oldies there.The oldest Genesis being the Douay-Rheims Bible translated from the Latin Vulgate the NT in 1584, Genesis to Job in 1609, and the rest in 1610.The KJV was begun in 1604 and finished in 1611.Never the less Genesis 1:20 says: God commanded the waters to bring forth abundantly the moving creatures that hath life. Fowl that may fly.Did God have Moses record a lie in verse 20? If the living creature that moveth and fowl were brought forth in verse 20, why would they be bara created in verse 21?I would contend that was some copist inserting his bias, but forgetting to remove verse 20.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."

In Message 36 I presented the following things I know because Genesis states the following things. I am affirming all of the things listed above as what Moses recorded in Genesis 1:1 through Genesis 2:3.If you disagree with what I have affirmed please present your rebuttal for discussion.God Bless,

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"John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."