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Author Topic:   Does Atheism = No beliefs?
Percy
Member
Posts: 20770
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 181 of 414 (552621)
03-30-2010 9:23 AM
Reply to: Message 180 by Dr Adequate
03-29-2010 10:04 PM


I read the recent exchange between you and Den several times and I still remain confused about what he's trying to say, but I do think he's trying to say something different than what you think. He considers science's focus on the natural detrimental, and so because every opinion in biology is based upon only that which can in some way be observed it therefore cannot have the full picture. Or something like that, as Moose would say.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 182 by Hyroglyphx, posted 03-30-2010 10:10 AM Percy has seen this message
 Message 183 by Huntard, posted 03-30-2010 10:36 AM Percy has replied

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 182 of 414 (552628)
03-30-2010 10:10 AM
Reply to: Message 181 by Percy
03-30-2010 9:23 AM


He considers science's focus on the natural detrimental, and so because every opinion in biology is based upon only that which can in some way be observed it therefore cannot have the full picture

Perhaps so, but as you stated, science is only sensical in direct relation to observed physical phenomona, not obtuse and ambiguous philosophies.

Moreoever, the scientific backing of I.D. is alleged to use science. It would therefore better facilitate Den if (s)he actually presented some evidence instead of alluding to the point that science is limited.


"Political correctness is tyranny with manners." -- Charlton Heston

This message is a reply to:
 Message 181 by Percy, posted 03-30-2010 9:23 AM Percy has seen this message

  
Huntard
Member (Idle past 1534 days)
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


(1)
Message 183 of 414 (552630)
03-30-2010 10:36 AM
Reply to: Message 181 by Percy
03-30-2010 9:23 AM


He can assert that all he wants. Fact is he can't show that there is anything more then the observable. And as long as something is not observable, we can't know anything about it, so we can't say anything about it with certainty either. Making teaching it completely useless.

Or, if he has found a method to actually know something about the unobservable, I'd like to hear it.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 181 by Percy, posted 03-30-2010 9:23 AM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 184 by Percy, posted 03-30-2010 10:41 AM Huntard has taken no action

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 20770
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 184 of 414 (552631)
03-30-2010 10:41 AM
Reply to: Message 183 by Huntard
03-30-2010 10:36 AM


Huntard writes:

Or, if he has found a method to actually know something about the unobservable, I'd like to hear it.

Yeah, precisely. Well put.

--Percy


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Taq
Member
Posts: 8519
Joined: 03-06-2009


Message 185 of 414 (552632)
03-30-2010 10:53 AM
Reply to: Message 172 by Den
03-28-2010 4:09 AM


First read my last post again, the fact you have raised these questions validate my arguement, you have not educated yourself on the opposing arguments.

Instead of alluding to these arguments why don't you detail them?

The fact you must ask these questions, exposes the problem with the current one sided education system, we are creating a system of drones, one class called Athiest the other Religious.

There are tens of thousands of christian biologists that reject ID and use the theory of evolution in their work. The only ones trying to create a conflict between science and religion seem to be the ID/creationist crowd.

Start with lets say St. Thomas Aquinas writings in Summa Theologica, and go from there, why not look at it yourself?

Why don't you discuss it here?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 172 by Den, posted 03-28-2010 4:09 AM Den has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 186 by Den, posted 04-10-2010 8:32 AM Taq has replied

  
Den
Member (Idle past 4340 days)
Posts: 36
From: Australia
Joined: 03-21-2010


Message 186 of 414 (554795)
04-10-2010 8:32 AM
Reply to: Message 185 by Taq
03-30-2010 10:53 AM


I make my arguements in vain to those who have already made their choice, your choice is one of ego. I nor anyone else can show you the truth, the search for the truth is a choice you must make to undertake yourself, it begins when you let go of your ego and accept that you know nothing, this is where I began.

You are mistaken regarding the scientific community, Dawkins is seen by many scientists as a joke, his argement has been destroyed by countless scientists, search for the relevant Dawkins debates on google.

All you Athiests same as Dawkins paint a false image of God, and then choose to disbelieve in your own delusion, for the God I believe in is not the same God you choose to disbelieve in.

You use atrocities committed in the name of Religion to revolt against God, yet you do not ask which of these attrocites are inspired by Jesus or the 10 commandments, obviously none as these men and commandments inspire nothing more than peace and love. Those who commit attrocities in the name of Religion represent God no more than the KKK represents all of white man, or the corrupt policeman represents the entire police force.

I didnt know I believed in God until I met you Athiests here, now I know and to you all I am greatful and can only hope that you choose to open your eyes and search for the truth. Its not an easy road to find with all the misinformation out there, only with absolute determination, independant thought and a complete objective outlook will you will find the truth. Good luck and may God be with you!


This message is a reply to:
 Message 185 by Taq, posted 03-30-2010 10:53 AM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 187 by Granny Magda, posted 04-10-2010 8:56 AM Den has taken no action
 Message 189 by Taq, posted 04-10-2010 9:46 AM Den has taken no action
 Message 190 by bluescat48, posted 04-10-2010 11:27 PM Den has taken no action
 Message 191 by Huntard, posted 04-12-2010 5:05 AM Den has taken no action
 Message 192 by Dr Adequate, posted 04-12-2010 7:47 AM Den has taken no action
 Message 193 by onifre, posted 04-13-2010 7:17 PM Den has taken no action
 Message 197 by Hyroglyphx, posted 05-23-2010 5:57 PM Den has taken no action

  
Granny Magda
Member (Idle past 74 days)
Posts: 2384
From: UK
Joined: 11-12-2007


Message 187 of 414 (554799)
04-10-2010 8:56 AM
Reply to: Message 186 by Den
04-10-2010 8:32 AM


Porky Pies
Den,

I didnt know I believed in God until I met you Athiests here

You are a pathetic liar Den. I'd give up on lying as a bad lot if I were you. You're not very convincing.

Mutate and Survive

PS; It's "didn't" and "atheists".


This message is a reply to:
 Message 186 by Den, posted 04-10-2010 8:32 AM Den has taken no action

  
Den
Member (Idle past 4340 days)
Posts: 36
From: Australia
Joined: 03-21-2010


Message 188 of 414 (554801)
04-10-2010 9:13 AM


Ask and you shall receive

Seek and you shall find

knock and the door will be open to you

You have 2 paths to choose, either way you fill find what you choose to search for.


  
Taq
Member
Posts: 8519
Joined: 03-06-2009


Message 189 of 414 (554809)
04-10-2010 9:46 AM
Reply to: Message 186 by Den
04-10-2010 8:32 AM


I make my arguements in vain to those who have already made their choice, your choice is one of ego.

I am not the one who claims that an all powerful creator deity is completely involved in my day to day life. The ego it takes to believe this is beyond my capacity.

You are mistaken regarding the scientific community, Dawkins is seen by many scientists as a joke, his argement has been destroyed by countless scientists, search for the relevant Dawkins debates on google.

Who cares about Dawkins? I could care less. What matters to me is the evidence. Have any?

You use atrocities committed in the name of Religion to revolt against God,

How can I revolt against someone who doesn't exist? I am no more revolting against God than you are revolting against Santa Claus. Get over yourself.

"With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion."
Steven Weinberg, quoted in The New York Times, April 20, 1999


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 Message 186 by Den, posted 04-10-2010 8:32 AM Den has taken no action

  
bluescat48
Member (Idle past 3429 days)
Posts: 2347
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2007


Message 190 of 414 (554948)
04-10-2010 11:27 PM
Reply to: Message 186 by Den
04-10-2010 8:32 AM


You use atrocities committed in the name of Religion to revolt against God

Please tell me how I can revolt against a non existent entity. I use atrocities committed in the name of religion to revolt against the idiots who provide the atrocities.


There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002

Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969

Since Evolution is only ~90% correct it should be thrown out and replaced by Creation which has even a lower % of correctness. W T Young, 2008


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 Message 186 by Den, posted 04-10-2010 8:32 AM Den has taken no action

  
Huntard
Member (Idle past 1534 days)
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


Message 191 of 414 (555071)
04-12-2010 5:05 AM
Reply to: Message 186 by Den
04-10-2010 8:32 AM


Den writes:

I nor anyone else can show you the truth, the search for the truth is a choice you must make to undertake yourself, it begins when you let go of your ego and accept that you know nothing, this is where I began.


That's where I began as well. I looked for evidence for god, and didn't find any. I therefore don't believe he exists. Just like I don't believe Snarklepom exists.

You are mistaken regarding the scientific community, Dawkins is seen by many scientists as a joke, his argement has been destroyed by countless scientists, search for the relevant Dawkins debates on google.

All you Athiests same as Dawkins paint a false image of God, and then choose to disbelieve in your own delusion, for the God I believe in is not the same God you choose to disbelieve in.


I paint no picture of god whatsoever. I ask you for evidence of god. As long as that isn't provided, I don't believe he exists. It's really that simple.

You use atrocities committed in the name of Religion to revolt against God...

I revolt against religion for the atrocities it commits. I can't revolt against something I don't believe exists.

yet you do not ask which of these attrocites are inspired by Jesus or the 10 commandments

Probably none. The bible is bigger then just those two things though. Plenty of atrocities to take from that (note, this is a revolt against the bible, not against god).

I didnt know I believed in God until I met you Athiests here

Somehow I doubt that.

now I know and to you all I am greatful and can only hope that you choose to open your eyes and search for the truth.

That's what I'm doing. Got any evidence?

Its not an easy road to find with all the misinformation out there, only with absolute determination, independant thought and a complete objective outlook will you will find the truth.

Absolutely. Now, where is this evidence again?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 186 by Den, posted 04-10-2010 8:32 AM Den has taken no action

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 291 days)
Posts: 16112
Joined: 07-20-2006


(1)
Message 192 of 414 (555084)
04-12-2010 7:47 AM
Reply to: Message 186 by Den
04-10-2010 8:32 AM


Bye
I make my arguements in vain to those who have already made their choice, your choice is one of ego. I nor anyone else can show you the truth, the search for the truth is a choice you must make to undertake yourself, it begins when you let go of your ego and accept that you know nothing, this is where I began.

I too am becoming persuaded that you know nothing. But I don't believe that you've let go of your ego.

You are mistaken regarding the scientific community, Dawkins is seen by many scientists as a joke, his argement has been destroyed by countless scientists ...

Many and countless eh? I guess that's why you can't name any.

All you Athiests same as Dawkins paint a false image of God, and then choose to disbelieve in your own delusion, for the God I believe in is not the same God you choose to disbelieve in.

You have not as yet described your deity to us. However, I'm sure if you do it will be as worthy of mockery as all your other delusions.

You use atrocities committed in the name of Religion to revolt against God ...

This is, of course, not true. My disgust at religious lunatics who fly planes into buildings is not a revolt against Allah; my disgust at religious lunatics who practice suttee is not a revolt against Shiva; and my disgust at religious lunatics who spew out filthy nonsense on internet forums is not a revolt against whatever dreary little deity you've made in your image.

You must remember, he only exists in your imagination, not mine.

I didnt know I believed in God until I met you Athiests here ...

Interesting. So, according to you, when you joined this forum screaming and frothing with hateful and hysterical delusions about atheists, you suspected that you might be one?

If I didn't know that you were lying, I'd think that you were insane. Of course, the two possibilities are not mutually exclusive.

---

P.S: It's spelled "atheists". The next time you can't control the urge to spit out rancid poisonous lies at people who've done you no harm, you could look slightly less ludicrous if you were to bear this in mind.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 186 by Den, posted 04-10-2010 8:32 AM Den has taken no action

  
onifre
Member (Idle past 2190 days)
Posts: 4854
From: Dark Side of the Moon
Joined: 02-20-2008


(1)
Message 193 of 414 (555470)
04-13-2010 7:17 PM
Reply to: Message 186 by Den
04-10-2010 8:32 AM


Atheism is the new form of evangelism!
Its not an easy road to find with all the misinformation out there, only with absolute determination, independant thought and a complete objective outlook will you will find the truth.

And yet you claim that you didn't know you believed in god till you met the atheist here? Lets see, you joined 3-21-2010. So you managed to start believing in god in less than a month?

So either you're completely full of shit, or you went through god's speedy belief course. Either that, or we atheist are some bad-ass undercover evangelist! So undercover that we didn't even know it. And, sadly, more effective than actual evangelist.

- Oni


This message is a reply to:
 Message 186 by Den, posted 04-10-2010 8:32 AM Den has taken no action

Replies to this message:
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Taq
Member
Posts: 8519
Joined: 03-06-2009


Message 194 of 414 (555599)
04-14-2010 12:32 PM
Reply to: Message 193 by onifre
04-13-2010 7:17 PM


Re: Atheism is the new form of evangelism!
So either you're completely full of shit, or you went through god's speedy belief course. Either that, or we atheist are some bad-ass undercover evangelist! So undercover that we didn't even know it. And, sadly, more effective than actual evangelist.

I wonder what will happen when we tell him we don't believe in Santa Claus either. Should we place bets on which takes longer, atheists converting to christianity or Santa Clausism?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 193 by onifre, posted 04-13-2010 7:17 PM onifre has taken no action

  
Asking
Junior Member (Idle past 4277 days)
Posts: 19
Joined: 05-19-2010


Message 195 of 414 (561799)
05-23-2010 4:12 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Den
03-22-2010 12:11 AM


Sorry don't know how to quote. These are the questions posed by the original poster.

1) Does atheism have any unique beliefs?

Atheism is a lack of belief in the supernatural and more specially in Gods. I think this is something that confuses theists as they see atheism as a denial of God which is isn't. An atheist doesn't need to deny the existance of something that they know doesn't exist.

2) Is the so called "freedom" of Atheism just the illusion given by an endless empty space that traps and imprisions the intellect?

I don't understand how you consider atheism as imprisoning the intellect. Atheism gives an individual free from the irrational contraints that are imposed on the mind by religion. I assume by endless empty space what you imagine the hole left in your worldview if you denied the existance of your God. Fortunatley I don't have this hole in my worldview as religion isn't intergrated into my personality.


This message is a reply to:
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