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Author Topic:   10 Books To Save Humanity!!
Straggler
Member
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 1 of 100 (562310)
05-27-2010 7:37 PM


The Earth is a radioactive fireball. You are the cultural and educational officer aboard the ship that contains the last remnants of humanity. Your ship is capable of inter-stallar travel, suspended animation and all the other technological requirements required to seek a new home for humanity. You even have a feasible Earth like planet destination to aim for. On board your ship are a host of craftsmen, technicians, agriculturalists and other very practically minded people who are perfectly capable of dealing with the practicalities of forming a working colony on a suitable planet. What you do not have on board are professional creative, innovative academics or thinkers. No research scientists, no mathematicians, no artists, poets, authors, economists, politicians, historians, philosophers, linguists. No theologians. No musicians or film makers. No nobel prize winners or other acclaimed thinkers.
It is your responsibility to retain and impart the sum totality of human knowledge understanding and achievement for future generations of humanity. More than that it is your task to set in place that which will educate and inspire those generations of humanity that will outlast the initial colonisers to reach and surpass the current achievements of humanity.
My question to you is this:
You can take 10 books with you to form the foundation of the colonial library and education system. What 10 books would you select for such a task?
For the purposes of this exercise please ignore the fact that the entire British library can fit onto an Ipod nano (or whatever). Also let's not get too caught up on the Sci-Fi scenario presented. That is just a backdrop for your book selection.
10 books...........

Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by Coyote, posted 05-27-2010 8:15 PM Straggler has replied
 Message 3 by Straggler, posted 05-27-2010 8:22 PM Straggler has not replied
 Message 6 by Blue Jay, posted 05-27-2010 10:00 PM Straggler has replied
 Message 34 by dwise1, posted 05-28-2010 5:08 PM Straggler has not replied
 Message 40 by ZenMonkey, posted 05-28-2010 9:20 PM Straggler has not replied
 Message 79 by onifre, posted 06-02-2010 7:47 PM Straggler has replied

  
Straggler
Member
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 3 of 100 (562318)
05-27-2010 8:22 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Straggler
05-27-2010 7:37 PM


My Own (Initial) List
Here is an off-the top-of-my-head list. I reserve the right to completely change this based on the persuasiveness of others (if this thread catches the EvC public imagination at all that is)
1) The complete works of Shakespeare - Will Shakespeare
2) The Road To Reality - Roger Penrose
3) A History of Western Philosophy - Bertie Russell
4) The Art Book
5) Watchmen - Alan Moore
6) Ulysses - James Joyce
7) THE definitive genetics text book whatever that may be?
8) Grays Anatomy - Current Edition
9) Feynman Lectures on Physics - RP Feynamn (all 3 vols as one book....? cheating - Yeah probably)
10) The Selfish Gene - Richard Dawkins
Other near misses - The Holy Bible, Origin Of The Species, The Oxford English Dictionary and Monty Python The Complete Unexpurgated Scripts.
Any takers?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Straggler, posted 05-27-2010 7:37 PM Straggler has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 5 by Dr Adequate, posted 05-27-2010 9:47 PM Straggler has replied
 Message 16 by Jumped Up Chimpanzee, posted 05-28-2010 9:08 AM Straggler has replied

  
Straggler
Member
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 4 of 100 (562319)
05-27-2010 8:23 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by Coyote
05-27-2010 8:15 PM


Cheating
Yes.
Try again.
10 books.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by Coyote, posted 05-27-2010 8:15 PM Coyote has not replied

  
Straggler
Member
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 14 of 100 (562363)
05-28-2010 7:16 AM
Reply to: Message 5 by Dr Adequate
05-27-2010 9:47 PM


Re: My Own (Initial) List
Thwy can write their own novels and plays and poetry if they survive. They will have their own William Shakespeare.
Of course. But are you saying we haven't created anything worth saving?
The important thing is to make sure that they do in fact survive. So no art, just science.
I think you are missing the point (as much as there is one to this thread). They have engineers, medics, builders, electricians, nutritionists, agriculturalists etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. The colonizers are not neanderthals. They are all practically skilled and educated in their colonizing speciality to modern standards.
But the fact that one should wash one's hands before performing surgery or delivering a baby would save untold millions of lives.
For the reasons given above I don't think this is the issue that should be being addressed.
A lot of science is fun but useless. Who really needs Newton of Darwin or Einstein? And if they do, they can figure it out for themselves.
Maybe. One day. But if we want to give them a headstart or even just pass on the accumulated wisdom of our species as it currently stands what texts would we pass on?
I don't think you've thought this through.
Oh definitely I have not. Apart from anything else I had had a few too many glasses of wine last night when I thought it would be a good idea to start this thread.
What was I thinking.......

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by Dr Adequate, posted 05-27-2010 9:47 PM Dr Adequate has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 50 by Dr Adequate, posted 05-31-2010 3:38 PM Straggler has replied

  
Straggler
Member
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 15 of 100 (562364)
05-28-2010 7:21 AM
Reply to: Message 6 by Blue Jay
05-27-2010 10:00 PM


Nothing Worth Saving
Everything else is expendable.
That is kinda depressing.
Have we achieved nothing as a species? Nothing worth saving and passing on to future generations?
I would have thought the problem would be the tiny limit of 10 books. Instead it appears that those who have replied consider even that too much to bother with.
That is kinda sad.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by Blue Jay, posted 05-27-2010 10:00 PM Blue Jay has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 24 by Blue Jay, posted 05-28-2010 10:34 AM Straggler has replied

  
Straggler
Member
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 17 of 100 (562368)
05-28-2010 9:26 AM
Reply to: Message 16 by Jumped Up Chimpanzee
05-28-2010 9:08 AM


Re: My Own (Initial) List
I have a single volume book called "The Complete Works of Shakespeare" on my bookshelf. That counts as one book.
Also, best not to fill their heads with the same ideas that screwed up this planet.
Oh no - Another one who thinks that we would be better off without any of the accumulated creative output of the entire human species.
It makes me wonder why we bother to create anything......(**sniff**sob**sniff**)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by Jumped Up Chimpanzee, posted 05-28-2010 9:08 AM Jumped Up Chimpanzee has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 18 by Huntard, posted 05-28-2010 9:35 AM Straggler has replied
 Message 19 by Jumped Up Chimpanzee, posted 05-28-2010 9:47 AM Straggler has replied

  
Straggler
Member
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 20 of 100 (562372)
05-28-2010 9:48 AM
Reply to: Message 18 by Huntard
05-28-2010 9:35 AM


Re: My Own (Initial) List
The Encyclopedia Britannica 11th Edition is a 29 volume set!!!
That is stretching the 10 book limitation too far.
And seriously - Is that what we would take to reflect humanities creative achievements and grand accumulation of innovation and insight? A friggin glorified dictionary!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by Huntard, posted 05-28-2010 9:35 AM Huntard has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 21 by Huntard, posted 05-28-2010 9:54 AM Straggler has replied

  
Straggler
Member
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 22 of 100 (562376)
05-28-2010 9:59 AM
Reply to: Message 19 by Jumped Up Chimpanzee
05-28-2010 9:47 AM


Re: My Own (Initial) List
Well you can tell that we are a bunch of science geeks here can't you!! I am dismayed at the cultural desert in which I find myself. I thought better of EvC members. At worst I thought no reaction at all. But instead I get "What do we need any of the artsy fartsy crap for?"
Apparently we would be better off with nothing at all. Or maybe a science text book or two to remind us to wash our hands after taking a dump, a trashy novel for the long trip and a glorified dictionary so that will forever have at our fingertips the population of Norway in 2009.
I despair.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by Jumped Up Chimpanzee, posted 05-28-2010 9:47 AM Jumped Up Chimpanzee has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 25 by Jumped Up Chimpanzee, posted 05-28-2010 10:54 AM Straggler has replied

  
Straggler
Member
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 23 of 100 (562378)
05-28-2010 10:15 AM
Reply to: Message 21 by Huntard
05-28-2010 9:54 AM


Re: My Own (Initial) List
Would it count then?
If you can find it in one volume on Amazon it counts. How bout that as a criteria?
That's not what I said, I don't think we should take the EB, encyclopedia's are far too brief on all their subjects
Phew!! Sanity/(Creativity) prevails!!
I'll see if I can compile a list of books this evening, but 10 is a bit less I think.
The limit is imposed to make us be very selective and make us think about what is really worth saving at the expense of all else.

This message is a reply to:
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Straggler
Member
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 26 of 100 (562391)
05-28-2010 11:01 AM
Reply to: Message 24 by Blue Jay
05-28-2010 10:34 AM


Re: Nothing Worth Saving
I basically agree with what Dr Adequate said:
DA said that we should not bother with Einstein, Newton or Darwin. That doesn't seem consistent with what you are saying here.
Like Dr Adequate, I say that all 10 books must be of a scientific, technological or academic nature, rather than of a cultural or sentimental nature, because science is less easily replaced than culture.
I think most who are less sciencely geeky than the average EvC participant would say the exact oposite. All the science stuff can be rediscovered but nobody will ever write Shakespeare's plays again. They will be lost forever.
Even having well-trained professionals in these fields won’t be good enough, because without, e.g., documented evidence and data about the various scientific theories and fields of study, you would be requiring the colony to accept these theories, not because of the evidence for them, but solely on the authority of those few professionals.
They are not well trained in the sense of pure science. They are well trained in terms of having the practical skills required to colonize wherever.
But that is a fair point (speaking as a fellow science geek ). So what ten books would you take to preserve the most important aspects of human scientific discovery? That is the question if it is the science solely route you want to take.
Edited by Straggler, : No reason given.

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Straggler
Member
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 29 of 100 (562401)
05-28-2010 12:08 PM
Reply to: Message 28 by hotjer
05-28-2010 11:50 AM


BZZZZZZZZTT
Straggler writes:
quote:
For the purposes of this exercise please ignore the fact that the entire British library can fit onto an Ipod nano (or whatever).
10 books......
Hotjer writes:
9*(harddisk with 5 TB of books) disguised as books
1*Laptop disguised as a book.
No cheating!!!!

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Straggler
Member
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 30 of 100 (562402)
05-28-2010 12:10 PM
Reply to: Message 25 by Jumped Up Chimpanzee
05-28-2010 10:54 AM


Re: My Own (Initial) List
Straggler writes:
Apparently we would be better off with nothing at all. Or maybe a science text book or two to remind us to wash our hands after taking a dump, a trashy novel for the long trip and a glorified dictionary so that will forever have at our fingertips the population of Norway in 2009.
A more pefect summary of humanity I could not conceive.
We're not perfect, but you can't help but love us.
I'm not loving anyone who hasn't washed their hands after a dump.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 25 by Jumped Up Chimpanzee, posted 05-28-2010 10:54 AM Jumped Up Chimpanzee has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 31 by Jumped Up Chimpanzee, posted 05-28-2010 12:32 PM Straggler has replied

  
Straggler
Member
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 32 of 100 (562418)
05-28-2010 3:49 PM
Reply to: Message 31 by Jumped Up Chimpanzee
05-28-2010 12:32 PM


Re: My Own (Initial) List
I suppose it comes down to a choice between taking a journey in a spaceship full of Arnold Rimmers or one full of Dave Listers.
Well if you want to list either Rimmer's or Lister's choice of 10 books to pass on the flame of human achievement that would be some sort of progress in this thread.
So far we have only my paltry drunken off-the-top-of-my head 10 listed in this thread.
Is it really only me that would choose something other than science text books or glorified dictionaries as the book based baton of human enlightenment?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by Jumped Up Chimpanzee, posted 05-28-2010 12:32 PM Jumped Up Chimpanzee has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 33 by Blue Jay, posted 05-28-2010 4:54 PM Straggler has replied
 Message 35 by Parasomnium, posted 05-28-2010 5:25 PM Straggler has not replied
 Message 36 by Parasomnium, posted 05-28-2010 5:27 PM Straggler has replied

  
Straggler
Member
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 38 of 100 (562435)
05-28-2010 7:01 PM
Reply to: Message 33 by Blue Jay
05-28-2010 4:54 PM


Re: My Own (Initial) List
Is it really only me that would choose something other than science text books or glorified dictionaries as the book based baton of human enlightenment?
Apparently so.
Well I have just been out with some of my BBC mates. They, with the exception of a couple of IT bods, are the sort of people who pompously describe themselves as "creatives". And I can tell you that their response to this question as compared to the EvC response could not be more stark. They completely ignored the Sc-fi-ness of the scenario and flew into a debate about the relative merits of Kafka and Dickens. Their inclusion of science can be summed up by the following (loosely remembered) quote:
"Once you have E=mc squared and you can build your bomb or power station or whatever what else needs to be said? The technicians will know enough about this stuff for anything useful and the rest can just be rediscovered anyway. It is the unique creative achievements of humanity that need to be preserved. Not the factual crap anyone can find out if they try hard enough"
So there you go. I don't agree with that. But there you go.
My problem with literature for this scenario is that it is so strongly tied to specific cultures.
Which is why those who think aspects of human culture worth saving would advocate such things. I mean why have museums or galleries or libraries huh? We will inevitably create other books, pictures and devices so why give a shit about any of that historical crap? Why spend huge sums of money preserving and restoring this ancient shit? Let's get rid of it all and make way for the new. Why not?
Why should Shakespeare's works be chosen, and not, for example, some Swedish literature, like August Strindberg?
Why indeed? But if we had to choose to preserve anything at all are all things equal or are some more worthy of saving than others? I don't dispute it is subjective to a large degree. But that is what I am asking here. What would you save from obliteration?
(for instance, the operator's manual for the spaceship they're riding).
Let's assume that the instruction manuals are already in place and that this is not an issue. As science geeks it seems we are just incapable of putting to one side the fact that the practical considerations of traval and colonization are not the issue under consideration here.
My vote would be to let the colony develop its own cultural and literary traditions, and preserve things that are more practical
And they will. But based on that argument we might as well throw away the entirety of human creative output at any given time and just get on with doing new stuff. Surely all the greatest innovation is done "standing on the shoulders of giants" No? Otherwise why keep anything? Let's scrub out the Picassos and record over the Beatles tracks to make way for the new stuff. No? Who needs the Mona Lisa when I can knock up a quick picture of a miserable bird with a grumpy smile using some crayons?
But, if you must have cultural and artistic stuff, then, rather than focusing on specific works that are indispensible, perhaps you should take a single-volume anthology from each of the ten most important literary traditions or cultures on the planet. That will give everybody at least a good sampling of the diversity of artsy-fartsiiness that existed on Earth, and make for a broader cultural experience for everybody.
Yeah fine. 10 books that do that would be, in my opinion, of some worth. Although I think you would sacrifice quality for the sake of inclusion. But hey ho this is all subjective anyway.
For example, we could bring a high school literature textbook, that may have a Shakespeare play, some sonnets by Keats, The Raven by Poe, and a number of other short stories, poems and novellas. Then, you could include, for instance, a Chinese anthology, that may have some jueju-style poems from the Tang Dynasty, a few other poems from Chu-Ci, some excerpts from the Analects, etc.
If you think that is the best way to preserve the intellectual achievements of the human race then OK. What ten books would represent such an inclusive and collective amalgamation of dispirate cultural achievements?

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 96 by Son Goku, posted 08-30-2012 6:28 PM Straggler has replied

  
Straggler
Member
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 39 of 100 (562436)
05-28-2010 7:03 PM
Reply to: Message 36 by Parasomnium
05-28-2010 5:27 PM


Re: Lister's Rim
But dude you are obviously a Red Dwarf fan of worrying proportions.........

This message is a reply to:
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