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Author Topic:   I.D. proponents: Make up your mind!
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2128 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 4 of 62 (563032)
06-02-2010 10:46 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by tesla
06-02-2010 10:30 PM


It's the evidence...
Just to take on one point:
since religions tend to vary, and religion and science cannot marry in their endeavors without prejudice, science is the best way to teach our children the basics of God without prejudice of religion.
Science deals with empirical evidence. Religions deal with scripture, dogma, belief, "divine revelation" and the like, and cringe at any attempt of science to evaluate those using empirical evidence.
But now you want science to abandon its established methods and accept scripture, revelation and the like -- most likely with no critical analysis -- and accept your religious beliefs. And to teach them as if they were science.
Sorry, you have it entirely backwards.
It is evidence first, then the rest.
You want science to teach about deities, science will first have to have evidence of deities. And that evidence will have to withstand critical examination. So far the claims of various religions have fared quite poorly when subjected to critical examination.
Example: the global flood about 4,350 years ago. That religious belief has been disproved with overwhelming evidence.
Example: a young earth. Likewise.

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by tesla, posted 06-02-2010 10:30 PM tesla has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 5 by tesla, posted 06-02-2010 11:01 PM Coyote has replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2128 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 6 of 62 (563045)
06-02-2010 11:25 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by tesla
06-02-2010 11:01 PM


Re: It's the evidence...
want science to accept what it finds. Not endorse religion.
Good. That is appropriate.
That's why God in science is important to me, science and God are not in conflict.
OK. But you realize that you have to produce empirical evidence, evidence that can be replicated by scientists, that there are any deities in science.
...religions are. Its our misunderstandings that make science flawed.
Nobody claims science is perfect. Science is all about disproving earlier theories.
The dynamics of the universe are perfect. we are not.
So? We do the best we can.
None of this proves there are deities that should be included in science. You are getting a lot of exercise with your logical leaps!

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by tesla, posted 06-02-2010 11:01 PM tesla has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 11 by tesla, posted 06-03-2010 10:46 PM Coyote has replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2128 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 12 of 62 (563221)
06-03-2010 11:12 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by tesla
06-03-2010 10:46 PM


Re: It's the evidence...
i believe if scientists were not so concerned about looking stupid they would ask better questions, communicate better, and maybe learn something.
Creationists are in no position to lecture science on how science should be done.
Creation "science" is the exact opposite of real science.

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by tesla, posted 06-03-2010 10:46 PM tesla has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 19 by tesla, posted 06-06-2010 9:38 PM Coyote has replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2128 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 20 of 62 (563815)
06-06-2010 10:09 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by tesla
06-06-2010 9:38 PM


Re: It's the evidence...
quote:
Creationists are in no position to lecture science on how science should be done.
Sure they are. You think no scientists are creationists?
Just because i believe the universe was created doesn't mean i cant be good at science.
Scientists might be creationists, but the extreme bible-literalist creationists cannot be considered scientists.
They have to, by definition, ignore, deny, or misrepresent any evidence that contradicts their a priori religious beliefs. You can't do that and be a scientist. Every word you publish and every result you claim will have to be independently verified before it can be trusted.
You might be a technician (a doctor, engineer, or mathematician, for example), but when you accept scripture and "divine" revelation as the ultimate forms of knowledge, you have turned your back on science and the scientific method and you are no longer doing science.

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by tesla, posted 06-06-2010 9:38 PM tesla has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 29 by tesla, posted 06-10-2010 8:09 AM Coyote has not replied

  
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