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Author Topic:   Is personal faith a debatable topic?
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2133 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 37 of 85 (563228)
06-04-2010 1:15 AM
Reply to: Message 36 by Buzsaw
06-04-2010 12:56 AM


Re: Testable Evidence.
What applies to the proverbial goose ought to apply to the gander as well. For example, elative to the alleged flood, mentioned in the OP, in debating in threads relative to the flood, I referred to the thesis premise* of the alleged flood. The thesis premise of my argument was the Genesis record depicting a global flood.
So what we have is a "thesis premise" on one side and a mass of scientific evidence on the other.
Your "thesis premise" is disproved in any number of ways, and has been for about 200 years. When do you admit that it is invalid? Or is religious belief not subject to disproof by scientific evidence?
Even my own archaeological research disproves the belief in a global flood some 4,350 years ago. But I'm late to the issue: the early creationist geologists, seeking to prove the flood, gave up just about 200 years ago. They were convinced by the evidence that the flood did not happen as described.
I see your post and the "thesis premise" issue you raise as just another strawman raised so you don't have to face the evidence that the flood never happened.
I don't know if "personal faith" is a debatable topic, but when you make claims that can be addressed by science those claims certainly are subject to examination and, if the evidence shows, to disproof. That is the case with the claim of a global flood about 4,350 years ago.
* ...an unproved statement put forward as a premise in an argument

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 36 by Buzsaw, posted 06-04-2010 12:56 AM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 40 by Buzsaw, posted 06-04-2010 8:02 AM Coyote has replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2133 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 43 of 85 (563309)
06-04-2010 10:12 AM
Reply to: Message 40 by Buzsaw
06-04-2010 8:02 AM


Re: Testable Evidence.
Coyote writes:
Your "thesis premise" is disproved in any number of ways, and has been for about 200 years. When do you admit that it is invalid? Or is religious belief not subject to disproof by scientific evidence?
What proof do you have, as an archeologist who researches observable evidence, that something expanding existed having no space in which to exist, no time in which to have happened and no outside of into which to expand when, in fact, upon such a premise you base your thesis/argument and upon which thesis premise you interpret everything you observe, or is such a belief not subject to disproof by scientific evidence?
Buz -- the topic was a global flood some 4,350 years ago.
Can I take your complete non sequitur response to mean that you have no evidence to bring to the subject of this mythical flood? And that you concede that it was a myth?

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 40 by Buzsaw, posted 06-04-2010 8:02 AM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 52 by Buzsaw, posted 06-04-2010 11:24 PM Coyote has replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2133 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 55 of 85 (563454)
06-05-2010 12:06 AM
Reply to: Message 52 by Buzsaw
06-04-2010 11:24 PM


Re: Testable Evidence.
Coyote writes:
Buz -- the topic was a global flood some 4,350 years ago.
Can I take your complete non sequitur response to mean that you have no evidence to bring to the subject of this mythical flood? And that you concede that it was a myth?
The purpose of my message was to bring home to you that the reason you don't consider my evidence as valid is because you're trying to require my evidence to comply with your thesis premise of singularity event, big bang and relative uniformity. Neither of us was around to observe, so we hypothesize as to which thesis premise we think best fits the observed evidence. You say my evidence is invalid and I say your's is. I'm with ICR and other creationists when it comes to evidence such as the geology of the Grand Canyon, for example. I've observed the research video on it and other stuff Their evidence makes good sense to me. The debate goes on, but you can't say there's no evidence of a global flood. ICR and others have it. Yes it's debatable. So what's new?
Buz, you are incredible!
You will do anything, it seems, to avoid the subject of evidence disproving the belief in a global flood about 4,350 years ago.
This is very simple. We don't need to go back billions of years to singularity events and the big bang. Or millions of years to the Grand Canyon.
We only need to go into your back yard and find soils that are about 4,350 years old. That is where the evidence will be, one way or the other.
Archaeologists (and other -ologists) look at that time period every day of the week. I have tested probably 100+ sites spanning that time period.
None of us have found evidence that should have been there! Rather, we have found continuity of human cultures, genomes, fauna and flora, and sedimentation. No evidence of flood deposits or erosional features which would be necessary for a flood of global proportions. We have found evidence of older and smaller floods (which would have been erased by a global flood).
Now quit dodging the issue. I know, as does everyone else here, that you are dodging. Either you have an answer to this lack of flood evidence or you don't. You just make yourself look silly and inadequate by bringing in irrelevant side issues as if they meant anything to what we are discussing.
Stick to the issue. Present your evidence. Or admit that the idea of a global flood about 4,350 years ago is a myth.

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 52 by Buzsaw, posted 06-04-2010 11:24 PM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 59 by Buzsaw, posted 06-05-2010 11:18 PM Coyote has replied

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 2133 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 60 of 85 (563581)
06-06-2010 12:31 AM
Reply to: Message 59 by Buzsaw
06-05-2010 11:18 PM


Re: Testable Evidence.
Here's the deal, Coyote. We both have an unproven thesis premise, yours being the alleged singularity, having no space to have happened in, no time in which to have happened, no outside of into which to expand, and no model. My unproven thesis premise is the alleged global flood which at least had space to have existed, time in which it could have happened and space into which it could have expanded the volumn of earth surface.
Coyote, you tell me. Which thesis premise best satisfies the observable laws of science?
Either deal with the issue of the global flood or go jump. You are making a complete ass of yourself.
Now, support the idea of a global flood about 4,350 years ago or don't bother responding with your strawmen.

Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 59 by Buzsaw, posted 06-05-2010 11:18 PM Buzsaw has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 64 by Buzsaw, posted 06-06-2010 10:05 AM Coyote has not replied
 Message 68 by IchiBan, posted 06-07-2010 2:06 PM Coyote has seen this message but not replied

  
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