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Author Topic:   How did round planets form from the explosion of the Big Bang?
Sasuke
Member (Idle past 4392 days)
Posts: 137
Joined: 08-21-2009


(1)
Message 136 of 156 (545965)
02-06-2010 6:26 PM
Reply to: Message 134 by DevilsAdvocate
02-06-2010 6:21 PM


DA,

Right. The reason I ask here is because I tend to learn a lot more via discussion than I do from just simply reading. A lot of assumptions occur when I just read but when I dicuss with people like yourself I actually get corrected during the assumption process so to speak... To be honest though, I am sure that for every one that does what I do, there are three more that are doing the same thing. So this is actually good for this thread or HIGH end Science forum.. Perhaps I look like a idiot so others can learn from the experience. You could make my member rating 0 and I would not care.

Edited by Sasuke, : edit

Edited by Sasuke, : grammar

Edited by Sasuke, :

Edited by Sasuke, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 134 by DevilsAdvocate, posted 02-06-2010 6:21 PM DevilsAdvocate has replied

Replies to this message:
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DrJones*
Member
Posts: 2209
From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Joined: 08-19-2004
Member Rating: 4.4


(1)
Message 137 of 156 (545966)
02-06-2010 6:29 PM
Reply to: Message 135 by Sasuke
02-06-2010 6:23 PM


Seriously dude, read a physics text book.

F=ma
a=(v1-v2)/t


It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds
soon I discovered that this rock thing was true
Jerry Lee Lewis was the devil
Jesus was an architect previous to his career as a prophet
All of a sudden i found myself in love with the world
And so there was only one thing I could do
Was ding a ding dang my dang along ling long - Jesus Built my Hotrod Ministry

Live every week like it's Shark Week! - Tracey Jordan
Just a monkey in a long line of kings. - Matthew Good
If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist! - Get Your War On
*not an actual doctor

This message is a reply to:
 Message 135 by Sasuke, posted 02-06-2010 6:23 PM Sasuke has replied

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Sasuke
Member (Idle past 4392 days)
Posts: 137
Joined: 08-21-2009


Message 138 of 156 (545968)
02-06-2010 6:31 PM
Reply to: Message 137 by DrJones*
02-06-2010 6:29 PM


DrJones,

DrJones writes:

Seriously dude, read a physics text book.

I will be taking a 101 course next term... Thanks for being patient.

Edited by Sasuke, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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 Message 142 by New Cat's Eye, posted 02-11-2010 10:24 AM Sasuke has taken no action

  
DevilsAdvocate
Member (Idle past 2338 days)
Posts: 1548
Joined: 06-05-2008


(1)
Message 139 of 156 (545978)
02-06-2010 10:18 PM
Reply to: Message 136 by Sasuke
02-06-2010 6:26 PM


Sasuke,

Rgr, it is good to be humble. I am a fellow layman myself in the subject. Hope I didn't come off to harsh, just wanted to spur further learning on the subject.


“One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we've been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We're no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It is simply too painful to acknowledge -- even to ourselves -- that we've been so credulous.” - Carl Sagan, The Fine Art of Baloney Detection

"You can't convince a believer of anything; for their belief is not based on evidence, it's based on a deep seated need to believe." - Carl Sagan

"It is far better to grasp the Universe as it really is than to persist in delusion, however satisfying and reassuring." - Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World


This message is a reply to:
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Taz
Member (Idle past 2529 days)
Posts: 5069
From: Zerus
Joined: 07-18-2006


(2)
Message 140 of 156 (546448)
02-10-2010 9:29 PM
Reply to: Message 138 by Sasuke
02-06-2010 6:31 PM


Sasuke writes:

I will be taking a 101 course next term... Thanks for being patient.


Not meaning to discourage you from learning, but I strongly strongly strongly suggest you take the physics classes first before discussing about physics. Physics discussion in a forum like this tend to rely heavily on layman's terms. I really really really don't want to see a young man (or woman) like you getting too used to layman's terms and then getting a shock therapy when the real physics in mathematical terms hit.

Understand the math first. Understand how potential energy, kinetic energy, momentum, acceleration, etc. work in mathematical terms first. Understand how projectile motion work first. Understand the difference between speed and velocity first.

You have a hell of a lot to learn before you can even begin to hope to understand some of the things expressed in layman's terms here.

This has been my number 1 complaint over the years about creationists. They think they can take a shortcut through life by going to a few sermons at their church and think they can trump the scientific community with a few big words used incorrectly.

If you want to disprove some of the well established scientific theories, the very best thing you can do is keep staying in school and learn these things. The more you learn, the more you will be equipped to stand up to the scientific community.

Added by edit.

By the way, make sure you take all the calculus classes. Nothing in modern physics make sense without calculus.

Edited by Taz, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
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misha
Member (Idle past 3865 days)
Posts: 69
From: Atlanta
Joined: 02-04-2010


(1)
Message 141 of 156 (546488)
02-11-2010 8:18 AM
Reply to: Message 140 by Taz
02-10-2010 9:29 PM


By the way, make sure you take all the calculus classes. Nothing in modern physics make sense without calculus.

I completely agree. Combining physics with calculus allows the student to really understand how all the concepts are interconnected.

I taught a high-school physics class for 2 years without calculus. Some of the students were not enrolled in calculus yet and hence the class had to rely on intuition. The abstract thinkers were able to connect the concepts together but some of the other students struggled. For the few students who were enrolled in calculus, I took some time to show them how the calculus was involved and they began grasping all the concepts much more quickly.

The students could all calculuate velocity, acceleration and kinetic energy. They could calculate forces of gravity. But they couldn't quite understand where gravity came from. However, the ones who were taking calculus really understood how all the concepts intertwined through the mathematics.

But. . .
Where have I heard something similar to this before. . . ?

Oh yes, Dobzhansky!
"Nothing in Biology Makes Sense Except in the Light of Evolution"

People can still do biological experiments without understanding evolution. They can still disect an animal, complete breeding experiments and investigate DNA sequences. But to really understand how all the concepts intertwine you need evolution.

Edited by misha, : formatting


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New Cat's Eye
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 142 of 156 (546509)
02-11-2010 10:24 AM
Reply to: Message 138 by Sasuke
02-06-2010 6:31 PM


Tazzhole writes:

By the way, make sure you take all the calculus classes. Nothing in modern physics make sense without calculus.

Also, having the physics examples makes understanding the calculus easier.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 138 by Sasuke, posted 02-06-2010 6:31 PM Sasuke has taken no action

  
Asking
Junior Member (Idle past 4275 days)
Posts: 19
Joined: 05-19-2010


Message 143 of 156 (563416)
06-04-2010 7:44 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Aptera
01-06-2010 2:32 PM


What has this to do with evolution?

I also object to putting the acceptence of evolution in the same catagory as believing in God. I accept evolution as the evidence supports it, you accept Gods existance for many reasons but none of them are supported by evidence.

I would also suggest that you do some background reading (The information is freely available on the internet) into the big bang and planet formation (Two subjects which are quite seperate although you seem to be confusing the two).


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Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 289 days)
Posts: 16112
Joined: 07-20-2006


Message 144 of 156 (563466)
06-05-2010 2:04 AM
Reply to: Message 143 by Asking
06-04-2010 7:44 PM


What has this to do with evolution?

Nothing, which is why it's in the "Big Bang and Cosmology" forum.

It does, however, have something to do with creationism, since evolution isn't the only thing creationists are wrong about.


This message is a reply to:
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Alfred Maddenstein
Member (Idle past 3204 days)
Posts: 565
Joined: 04-01-2011


Message 145 of 156 (613413)
04-25-2011 2:56 AM
Reply to: Message 6 by Dr Jack
01-07-2010 7:40 AM


The "explosion" was everywhere. Every point, everywhere in the universe, is where the big bang was. [/qs]

That sounds quite confusing and contradictory. Every point being already there may mean that all space was already there and that only the point of time was so lonely and unprecedented. Was there any distance between any two points? Any two points with distance separating them is a single point. Any distance separating them may imply a division of that distance into points. An infinity of spatial points shared by a single point of time? That sounds absurd again. A great collection of spatial points with a single point of time to measure them all.
In this context it may imply that the space was big enough already to grow even bigger later which is strange too.
Anyway that is not how the hypothesis was first formulated. That all must be later adjustments in an attempts to clarify the initial confusion. In the beginning there was a cosmic egg that hatched. Eggs imply a certain location. Also it is claimed that everything was very dense and hot. Compared to what? If it was equally dense and hot at all of those numerous points that was just normal state of affairs. The scenario is that it then got less dense. That means it got diluted. The question is, diluted by what? By more points cool and empty?
Also another consideration. Heat is but one of the measures of motion. Heat and motion are circular notion and it is hard to tell which results in which. Cooling is a relative motion spent. To be spent it has to be earned first. Space and time are two other such measures. The three are mutually convertible measures. It could be said that space is the heat is space spent in motion measured by time or any other way round.
So then how we get a great hulking amount of motion in space measured by a single point of time? That's all absurd and sounds like very bad accounting.


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crashfrog
Member (Idle past 704 days)
Posts: 19762
From: Silver Spring, MD
Joined: 03-20-2003


Message 146 of 156 (613532)
04-25-2011 10:44 PM
Reply to: Message 145 by Alfred Maddenstein
04-25-2011 2:56 AM


In the beginning there was a cosmic egg that hatched.

Please tell me more about your incredible cosmic egg mythology. What color was the egg? White, or Easter colors?

Do they call you "Maddenstein" because you're a kind of kooky insane monster made from dead crazy people?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 145 by Alfred Maddenstein, posted 04-25-2011 2:56 AM Alfred Maddenstein has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 147 by Alfred Maddenstein, posted 04-25-2011 11:16 PM crashfrog has replied

  
Alfred Maddenstein
Member (Idle past 3204 days)
Posts: 565
Joined: 04-01-2011


Message 147 of 156 (613533)
04-25-2011 11:16 PM
Reply to: Message 146 by crashfrog
04-25-2011 10:44 PM


crashfrog writes:

In the beginning there was a cosmic egg that hatched.

Please tell me more about your incredible cosmic egg mythology. What color was the egg? White, or Easter colors?

Do they call you "Maddenstein" because you're a kind of kooky insane monster made from dead crazy people?


That is not my idea at all. It is an ancient myth. For your information, Cosmic egg was re-introduced by into cosmology albeit under the name of primaeval atom by a catholic priest Abbe Lemaitre who was the egg the Big Bang hypothesis hatched from.
You don't seem particularly bright, my friend. Apart from adhominems added, your post grapples with a single quote out of context. Is it beyond the means of your feeble birdbrain to take in my whole post? Did you pick the egg out because that was the only thing that glistened to attract your attention?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 146 by crashfrog, posted 04-25-2011 10:44 PM crashfrog has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 148 by Dr Adequate, posted 04-26-2011 12:14 AM Alfred Maddenstein has replied
 Message 152 by crashfrog, posted 04-26-2011 11:31 AM Alfred Maddenstein has replied

  
Dr Adequate
Member (Idle past 289 days)
Posts: 16112
Joined: 07-20-2006


(1)
Message 148 of 156 (613537)
04-26-2011 12:14 AM
Reply to: Message 147 by Alfred Maddenstein
04-25-2011 11:16 PM


A couple of additions to your vocabulary.

Firstly, the word "egg" refers to one of these things:

Secondly, if someone was call you (for example) a deluded windbag with delusions of intelligence, that would not be an ad hominem argument. That would be an insult.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 147 by Alfred Maddenstein, posted 04-25-2011 11:16 PM Alfred Maddenstein has replied

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Alfred Maddenstein
Member (Idle past 3204 days)
Posts: 565
Joined: 04-01-2011


Message 149 of 156 (613544)
04-26-2011 1:53 AM
Reply to: Message 148 by Dr Adequate
04-26-2011 12:14 AM


Dr Adequate writes:

A couple of additions to your vocabulary.

Firstly, the word "egg" refers to one of these things:

Secondly, if someone was call you (for example) a deluded windbag with delusions of intelligence, that would not be an ad hominem argument. That would be an insult.


Thank you for your tender care about my vocabulary expansion. As to the distinction you draw between ad hominem arguments and insults...well, I would say that the essence of that fallacy is insulting the opponent to cover an own lack of arguments to which your post above is a good illustration.
That could be called red herring just as well. How about showing me what your think about the topic at hand instead?

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 Message 150 by Admin, posted 04-26-2011 7:20 AM Alfred Maddenstein has replied

  
Admin
Director
Posts: 12791
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 150 of 156 (613568)
04-26-2011 7:20 AM
Reply to: Message 149 by Alfred Maddenstein
04-26-2011 1:53 AM


Hi Alfred,

You're gradually expanding the number of threads in which you're introducing into the discussion your own preferred cosmological theory. All these threads already have topics, and some had been dormant for some time.

If you will submit a thread proposal over at Proposed New Topics and it is promoted then you will have your own thread to discuss this cosmological theory and we can keep the other threads on topic.


--Percy
EvC Forum Director

This message is a reply to:
 Message 149 by Alfred Maddenstein, posted 04-26-2011 1:53 AM Alfred Maddenstein has replied

Replies to this message:
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