|
Register | Sign In |
|
QuickSearch
EvC Forum active members: 64 (9164 total) |
| |
ChatGPT | |
Total: 916,768 Year: 4,025/9,624 Month: 896/974 Week: 223/286 Day: 30/109 Hour: 3/3 |
Thread ▼ Details |
|
Thread Info
|
|
|
Author | Topic: Apes vs. Man What are your thoughts?? | |||||||||||||||||||||||
nator Member (Idle past 2195 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: Gene! That would never work, DUH! Don't you know anything about Baraminology? Humans and primates aren't related AT ALL, so testing this gene therapy on primates first wouldn't give us ANY indication about if it might work in humans. Specifically, it wouldn't work with Chimpanzees, for sure.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
nator Member (Idle past 2195 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: 1) Why is it that, even though you admit to having minimal scientific knowledge, you feel comfortable dismissing the Theory of Evolution? If you dismiss it on religious grounds, I have no complaint, but to make the kind of statements from personal incredulity that you have implies that you also somehow are attempting to object to the Theory on logical grounds, even though you admittedly do not know much about it. That is quite a weak place to debate from, I hope you realize. 2) Since you are using the word "kind" in what seems to be a somewhat scientific sense, perhaps you can define "kind" for me. What I really want to be able to do is to know how (what parameters and criterion to use) to tell one "kind" from another. If you want to use the word "kind" in a descriptive, scientific way, first you must define it. Thanks in advance. Allison
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
nator Member (Idle past 2195 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: I don't think we have adapted to pneumonia. Pneumonia kills plenty of people, and the reduction in deaths would be mostly due to better treatment and drugs. A better example of our species adapting to a pathogen would be the AIDS virus. There are individuals who test positive for exposure to the HIV virus, but never develop symptoms of AIDS, or develop them very slowly.By looking at the DNA of these people, scientists have isolated a shared beneficial mutation. Due to genetic variation, some people in the population possess a mutation in the CCR(5) gene which causes these individuals to not develop AIDS if they have two copies of this mutant gene. If they have only one copy of the mutant gene, they have a very slow onset of AIDS. The ancestry of the people carrying this HIV-resisting mutation is quite fascinating; they very strongly tend to come from countries which were affected by Bubonic Plague. Most of the world's population lacks this mutation. ------------------"We will still have perfect freedom to hold contrary views of our own, but to simply close our minds to the knowledge painstakingly accumulated by hundreds of thousands of scientists over long centuries is to deliberately decide to be ignorant and narrow- minded." -Steve Allen, from "Dumbth" [This message has been edited by schrafinator, 02-27-2002]
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
nator Member (Idle past 2195 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: Like, cool.
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
nator Member (Idle past 2195 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: quote: I also admit to not being a scientist.
quote: I think that your driving analogy is not quite right. I think a better one is, "you can drive a car but you really don't know how the engine, transmission, or suspension, etc., work. Nonetheless, you feel comfortable holding strong opinions about exactly how to perform auto repairs. At any rate, why don't you explain what study of Biology you have done which hasn't been from a religious source?
quote: quote: I could answer this in many ways, but I'll choose two. 1) Yes. They are both of the same 'warm-blooded vertebrate' "kind". 2) You didn't answer the question. You answered my question about exactly which criterion to use to determine what "kind" an animal is by basically asking me to make up my own criterion. Specifically, are a chimp and an orangutan the same kind, [b]and how do you know without using the Bible?[b] [QUOTE]Do you think an ape and a human are the same kind? What criterion would you use? quote: If you want to use the word "kind" in a descriptive, scientific way, first you must define it.[QUOTE]
quote: If this is your definition, then we have observed the evolution of new kinds.
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-speciation.html Now, do you want to change your definition of "kind"?
quote: Sure, if that's how you want to define it.
quote: Actually, it is not known if apes and humans could reproduce or not, so you cannot say that they are different kinds. Also, ability to reproduce does not address other criterion, such as the field of genetics. How do you account for the shared identical retroviral inserions in both the human and chimp genomes? Are you going to ignore this evidence?
quote: Wrong, as you have defined "kind". We have observed speciation. Here is a single example:
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/speciation.html "Three species of wildflowers called goatsbeards were introduced to the United States from Europe shortly after the turn of the century.Within a few decades their populations expanded and began to encounter one another in the American West. Whenever mixed populations occurred, the species interbred (hybridizing) producing sterile hybrid offspring. Suddenly, in the late forties two new species of goatsbeard appeared near Pullman, Washington. Although the new species were similar in appearance to the hybrids, they produced fertile offspring. The evolutionary process had created a separate species that could reproduce but not mate with the goatsbeard plants from which it had evolved." ------------------"We will still have perfect freedom to hold contrary views of our own, but to simply close our minds to the knowledge painstakingly accumulated by hundreds of thousands of scientists over long centuries is to deliberately decide to be ignorant and narrow- minded." -Steve Allen, from "Dumbth"
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
nator Member (Idle past 2195 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: Dunno, but we do have different numbers of chromosomes (chimp and human) so we would probably produce infertime hybrids. [This message has been edited by schrafinator, 03-03-2002]
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
nator Member (Idle past 2195 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: It's a hybrid with a typo!
[This message has been edited by schrafinator, 03-04-2002]
|
|||||||||||||||||||||||
nator Member (Idle past 2195 days) Posts: 12961 From: Ann Arbor Joined: |
quote: EVEN BETTER!!!
|
|
|
Do Nothing Button
Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved
Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024