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Author Topic:   Is Christianity Polytheistic?
Larni
Member (Idle past 163 days)
Posts: 4000
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 16 of 375 (563726)
06-06-2010 4:13 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by Pauline
06-06-2010 3:13 PM


Re: Is Christianity Polytheistic?
do not qualify for God because by my defintion God does not marry or procreate
So Jesus was not Yahweh's son, then.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by Pauline, posted 06-06-2010 3:13 PM Pauline has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 18 by Pauline, posted 06-06-2010 4:33 PM Larni has replied

Pauline
Member (Idle past 3735 days)
Posts: 283
Joined: 07-07-2008


Message 17 of 375 (563730)
06-06-2010 4:32 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by Straggler
06-06-2010 4:10 PM


Re: Is Christianity Polytheistic?
No.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by Straggler, posted 06-06-2010 4:10 PM Straggler has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 19 by Straggler, posted 06-06-2010 4:55 PM Pauline has replied

Pauline
Member (Idle past 3735 days)
Posts: 283
Joined: 07-07-2008


Message 18 of 375 (563731)
06-06-2010 4:33 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by Larni
06-06-2010 4:13 PM


Re: Is Christianity Polytheistic?
No.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by Larni, posted 06-06-2010 4:13 PM Larni has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 20 by Larni, posted 06-06-2010 5:00 PM Pauline has not replied

Straggler
Member
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 19 of 375 (563740)
06-06-2010 4:55 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by Pauline
06-06-2010 4:32 PM


Re: Is Christianity Polytheistic?
Dr Sing writes:
Whether we can apply one religion's definitions to another successfully is the question, yes?
Straggler writes:
Are Hindus atheists?
dr Sing writes:
No.
So then you accept the Hindu concept of god as meeting your requirement of that which you would call god?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by Pauline, posted 06-06-2010 4:32 PM Pauline has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 21 by Pauline, posted 06-06-2010 5:08 PM Straggler has replied

Larni
Member (Idle past 163 days)
Posts: 4000
From: Liverpool
Joined: 09-16-2005


Message 20 of 375 (563741)
06-06-2010 5:00 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by Pauline
06-06-2010 4:33 PM


Re: Is Christianity Polytheistic?
Who's son was he then? I was bought up in a CoE school and I definitely remember Jesus being Yahweh's son.

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 Message 18 by Pauline, posted 06-06-2010 4:33 PM Pauline has not replied

Pauline
Member (Idle past 3735 days)
Posts: 283
Joined: 07-07-2008


Message 21 of 375 (563742)
06-06-2010 5:08 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by Straggler
06-06-2010 4:55 PM


Re: Is Christianity Polytheistic?
Dr Sing writes:
Whether we can apply one religion's definitions to another successfully is the question, yes?
Straggler writes:
Are Hindus atheists?
dr Sing writes:
No.
Straggler writes:
So then you accept the Hindu concept of god as meeting your requirement of that which you would call god?
I thought we called those atheists who do not believe in the concept of God. Hindus clearly believe in a concept of God. Therefore they are not atheists. You can hardly take this to mean that my concept of God and their is one and the same?
Larnie writes:
Who's son was he then? I was bought up in a CoE school and I definitely remember Jesus being Yahweh's son.
No one's biological son.
Edited by Dr. Sing, : No reason given.

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Replies to this message:
 Message 22 by Straggler, posted 06-06-2010 5:24 PM Pauline has replied
 Message 83 by Coragyps, posted 06-09-2010 8:59 AM Pauline has replied

Straggler
Member
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 22 of 375 (563745)
06-06-2010 5:24 PM
Reply to: Message 21 by Pauline
06-06-2010 5:08 PM


Re: Is Christianity Polytheistic?
Hindus clearly believe in a concept of God. Therefore they are not atheists. You can hardly take this to mean that my concept of God and their is one and the same?
They don't have to be the same to both qualify as god concepts do they.
Given that you accept that the Hindu god Lakshmi qualifies as meeting your requirement to be called a "god" can you tell me in what way Satan does not also qualify as a god?
What are the criteria for being accepted as worthy of the term "god"?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 21 by Pauline, posted 06-06-2010 5:08 PM Pauline has replied

Replies to this message:
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Meldinoor
Member (Idle past 4808 days)
Posts: 400
From: Colorado, USA
Joined: 02-16-2009


(2)
Message 23 of 375 (563748)
06-06-2010 6:06 PM


It seems to me to be a simple problem of nomenclature. What is a god to a Hindu, may not be a god to a Muslim.
For example, a satanist may well consider Satan a god, as he fulfills the requirements for worship in his religion. A Christian will not consider Satan a god, because in Christianity, the definition of God precludes the existence of multiple gods, or any one other than the omnipotent and perfect YHWH. An important distinction between the Christian belief in angels and similar supernatural entities, and the Hindu gods, is that most (all probably) Christians would consider it un-Christian to worship any supernatural agent besides YHWH, while Hindus are free to worship any one of their gods.
Each theistic religion makes its own distinction between gods worthy of worship, and any other supernatural entities which are not. Until their is an objective and universally accepted definition of gods, the question is moot, and it is up to each individual belief to decide what is and isn't a god.
Respectfully,
-Meldinoor

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Straggler
Member
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 24 of 375 (563753)
06-06-2010 6:31 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by Meldinoor
06-06-2010 6:06 PM


If what you say is true Christians would consider Muslims, Hindus et al to be atheists. As the Christians would consider all those others as not believing in god(s).
No?

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 Message 23 by Meldinoor, posted 06-06-2010 6:06 PM Meldinoor has replied

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 Message 26 by Meldinoor, posted 06-06-2010 6:47 PM Straggler has replied
 Message 27 by subbie, posted 06-06-2010 6:57 PM Straggler has replied
 Message 36 by Pauline, posted 06-06-2010 8:00 PM Straggler has not replied

Meldinoor
Member (Idle past 4808 days)
Posts: 400
From: Colorado, USA
Joined: 02-16-2009


(1)
Message 25 of 375 (563757)
06-06-2010 6:42 PM
Reply to: Message 24 by Straggler
06-06-2010 6:31 PM


Since a Christian doesn't even believe the Hindu gods exist (well, I've heard some Christians claim that other faiths are inspired by demons, but that's a whole other discussion) he/she probably believes Hindus are simply worshiping a non-existent concept of their own imagination. That doesn't necessarily make a Hindu an atheist.
Religions are about faith and belief. A Hindu believes he's worshiping a "god" (according to the hindu definition), which makes his belief theistic whether or not its true. Similarly, an atheist lacks belief in a god, which is what makes him/her an atheist. This irregardless of the actual existence or non-existence of gods.
Respectfully,
-Meldinoor

This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by Straggler, posted 06-06-2010 6:31 PM Straggler has not replied

Meldinoor
Member (Idle past 4808 days)
Posts: 400
From: Colorado, USA
Joined: 02-16-2009


Message 26 of 375 (563759)
06-06-2010 6:47 PM
Reply to: Message 24 by Straggler
06-06-2010 6:31 PM


Straggler writes:
As the Christians would consider all those others as not believing in god(s)
I see your point. However, having a belief doesn't necessarily mean that some other belief is necessarily invalidated. I may not believe in the Hindu gods, nor think them worthy of worship, but I know Hindus do. That's what makes them "gods" to the hindus, and makes Hindus theists. That's just my POV though.
Respectfully,
-Meldinoor

This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by Straggler, posted 06-06-2010 6:31 PM Straggler has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 28 by Straggler, posted 06-06-2010 6:58 PM Meldinoor has replied

subbie
Member (Idle past 1254 days)
Posts: 3509
Joined: 02-26-2006


Message 27 of 375 (563760)
06-06-2010 6:57 PM
Reply to: Message 24 by Straggler
06-06-2010 6:31 PM


Atheists consider no beings as being a god. Does that mean that atheists think everyone is an atheist?
The problem with this thread is that one has to take each individual religion according to its own definition of a god, even though those definitions are inconsistent between them. Otherwise absurd results obtain. Greeks were polytheistic because they believed in multiple gods as they conceived of gods. Muslims, as I understand Islam, are monotheistic as they believe in one god.
Christians are different. They believe in a so-called "trinity," a sort of 3 in 1 god. This concept, of course, is nonsensical, but there can be no doubt that they believe that Yahweh ... YHWH... Houyhnhnm.... whatever, is god, Jesus is god and the holy spirit is god, they are polytheistic, whatever logical (or illogical) gymnastics they wish to engage in notwithstanding.

Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. Ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them; and no man ever had a distinct idea of the trinity. It is the mere Abracadabra of the mountebanks calling themselves the priests of Jesus. -- Thomas Jefferson
For we know that our patchwork heritage is a strength, not a weakness. We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and non-believers. -- Barack Obama
We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat
It has always struck me as odd that fundies devote so much time and effort into trying to find a naturalistic explanation for their mythical flood, while looking for magical explanations for things that actually happened. -- Dr. Adequate

This message is a reply to:
 Message 24 by Straggler, posted 06-06-2010 6:31 PM Straggler has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 30 by Straggler, posted 06-06-2010 7:04 PM subbie has replied

Straggler
Member
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 28 of 375 (563761)
06-06-2010 6:58 PM
Reply to: Message 26 by Meldinoor
06-06-2010 6:47 PM


Godly Criteria
However, having a belief doesn't necessarily mean that some other belief is necessarily invalidated.
I didn't say it was.
I may not believe in the Hindu gods, nor think them worthy of worship, but I know Hindus do.
Of course they do. But if Hindus qualify as theists they must believe in gods. If Hindu gods qualify as gods then in what sense does satan not? Without some serious equivocation?
That's what makes them "gods" to the hindus, and makes Hindus theists.
If I define pencils as being "gods" and choose to worship pencils does that make me a theist?
Is a theist just someone who defiines X as god and then worships it regardless of what X is where X can be anything at all?
Or does X have criteria to qualify as "god" and if so what are these criteria?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by Meldinoor, posted 06-06-2010 6:47 PM Meldinoor has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 29 by subbie, posted 06-06-2010 7:03 PM Straggler has replied
 Message 37 by Pauline, posted 06-06-2010 8:18 PM Straggler has replied
 Message 45 by Meldinoor, posted 06-06-2010 11:21 PM Straggler has replied
 Message 46 by Dr Adequate, posted 06-07-2010 1:58 AM Straggler has replied

subbie
Member (Idle past 1254 days)
Posts: 3509
Joined: 02-26-2006


Message 29 of 375 (563763)
06-06-2010 7:03 PM
Reply to: Message 28 by Straggler
06-06-2010 6:58 PM


Re: Godly Criteria
If Hindu gods qualify as gods then in what sense does satan not? Without some serious equivocation?
Because, according to the Christian definition, Satan is not a god. Since this thread is about Christianity as a polytheistic religion, the only relevant question is whether Satan is a god in Christianity.
If you want to argue that Christianity is being internally inconsistent by saying Jesus et. al. are god(s) but Satan isn't, I'd listen to your argument. But if you are instead arguing that Satan is in fact a god under Christian doctrine, I'd need to see a pretty powerful body of evidence to support that claim, because it's inconsistent with my understanding of Christianity.

Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. Ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them; and no man ever had a distinct idea of the trinity. It is the mere Abracadabra of the mountebanks calling themselves the priests of Jesus. -- Thomas Jefferson
For we know that our patchwork heritage is a strength, not a weakness. We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and non-believers. -- Barack Obama
We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat
It has always struck me as odd that fundies devote so much time and effort into trying to find a naturalistic explanation for their mythical flood, while looking for magical explanations for things that actually happened. -- Dr. Adequate

This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by Straggler, posted 06-06-2010 6:58 PM Straggler has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 31 by Straggler, posted 06-06-2010 7:06 PM subbie has replied

Straggler
Member
Posts: 10333
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 30 of 375 (563764)
06-06-2010 7:04 PM
Reply to: Message 27 by subbie
06-06-2010 6:57 PM


Atheists consider no beings as being a god. Does that mean that atheists think everyone is an atheist?
No. It means atheists think people believe in lots of different gods. But what does this term "god" mean and why doesn't satan or the archangel Gabriel qualify?
The problem with this thread is that one has to take each individual religion according to its own definition of a god, even though those definitions are inconsistent between them.
If I define pencils as gods and believe that pencils exist do I become a theist?
What is it one has to believe in to be a theist?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by subbie, posted 06-06-2010 6:57 PM subbie has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 32 by subbie, posted 06-06-2010 7:30 PM Straggler has replied

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