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Member (Idle past 1050 days) Posts: 1800 From: Prague, Czech Republic Joined: |
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Author | Topic: It's a World Cup year! | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
caffeine Member (Idle past 1050 days) Posts: 1800 From: Prague, Czech Republic Joined: |
I like the system too: it makes the game more interesting, with new teams entering the league all the time. It also makes the teams have to perform to at least some level in order to stay, so you improve the chances that the league or division will have the best teams possible. For that reason alone, I wish USA sports would try the system out (but, since the leagues here are actually run by the franchise owners, this is obviously less likely to happen). I think I like the way Elitserien (Swedish Hockey) does it better though: there's a qualifying tournament instead of automatic promotion/relegation. It makes sure you don't get a crap team in by a fluke. Which I think shows you're looking at it in a very different way to me. You seem to be viewing the system over how it affects the important competition at the top (the Premier League), but the Premiership is only a part of it. The other leagues matter too. The Swedish Elitserien that you're descrbing is, again, just about one competition. There doesn't seem much point in taking part in the playoffs if you don't seriously think you can qualify. The League Pyramid is different. Most teams are far, far away from the top divisions, but they have their own little local titles to play for, like the East Anglian Combined Counties Second Division or some such nonsense, whilst still knowing that they're part of the same system as professional footballers. This means the scope is essentially unlimited; whereas a yearly playoff couldn't accommodate every team in a country like England (even the FA Cup, which nowadays has 8 playoff stages before the top clubs join in, doesn't have room for all the teams in the league pyramid).
By the way, can you (or anyone) explain to me a little how the international competitions work? I know UEFA Champions League is the highest European competition, and UEFA Europa League is next, but how do they determine which teams go to which UEFA competition? Each country in Europe has a coefficient rating, which is decided based mostly on the performances of their clubs in European competitions, but also by the performance of their national team. Based on this coefficient, they get a different number of places in each competition. A country like England, which is at the top, gets 2 teams automatically into the first round of the Champions League, another two straight into the third qualifying round for the Champions League, and two teams directly into the Europa League. The bottom countries, like tiny little Malta, will just get one team each into the first qualifying rounds of the Champions League and Europa League. These places are usually decided by finishing positions in the league, so the top four teams in the English Premiership this season will go to the Champions League next season and the next two to the Europa League. There are also a couple of places dished out each year as rewards for fair play, and last season's winner qualifies automatically nowadays, but mostly it's decided by domestic league position.
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Blue Jay Member (Idle past 2723 days) Posts: 2843 From: You couldn't pronounce it with your mouthparts Joined: |
Hi, Caffeine.
caffeine writes: The Swedish Elitserien that you're descrbing is, again, just about one competition. There doesn't seem much point in taking part in the playoffs if you don't seriously think you can qualify. The League Pyramid is different. Well, that's not entirely true. It's the same promotion/relegation concept as English football, with a pyramid of leagues and divisions. It's just that promotion/relegation is determined by tournament. There are still championships at the lower levels (granted, not as much as in association football, and not as well publicized or celebrated, but it's still there). It was just the idea of using a tournament, rather than an automated system, to promote or relegate teams, that I liked. It works as much to keep the lower division from being dominated by teams that probably should be in the higher division as it does to keep the crap teams out of the higher division. I do like the idea behind the FA Cup, where the low divisions get to start the tournament, and higher and higher divisions join in as the tournament progresses. -----
caffeine writes: These places are usually decided by finishing positions in the league, so the top four teams in the English Premiership this season will go to the Champions League next season and the next two to the Europa League. Are the rules for who goes determined by UEFA, or by the individual leagues? Edited by Bluejay, : I wrote "think" when I meant "like." -Bluejay (a.k.a. Mantis, Thylacosmilus) Darwin loves you.
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caffeine Member (Idle past 1050 days) Posts: 1800 From: Prague, Czech Republic Joined: |
Are the rules for who goes determined by UEFA, or by the individual leagues? UEFA, I think, but I don't know if it always has been. The system's changed quite a bit over the years, and teams used to be able to qualify for the UEFA Cup (the forerunner to the Europa League) by winning domestic cup competitions as well as by final league position. I think football associations employ lots of people with little to do but analyse how competition structures work, as something seems to change every season. This season it was the qualifying rounds for the Champions League, which were changed to give teams which won their leagues a bit of an advantage over runners-up from nations with multiple qualifying teams.
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Straggler Member (Idle past 91 days) Posts: 10333 From: London England Joined: |
Current world cup odds World Cup Odds
Spain, Brazil, England and Argentina are the favorites. US 75/1. Spain 4/1Chile 66/1 Greece 150/1 Brazil 5/1 Serbia 66/1 Switzerland 200/1 England 6/1 USA 75/1 Slovakia 225/1 Argentina 7/1 Mexico 80/1 Japan 250/1 Holland 12/1 Ghana 80/1 South Korea 250/1 Italy 13/1 Cameroon 100/1 Slovenia 300/1 Germany 13/1 Uruguay 100/1 Algeria 600/1 France 14/1 Nigeria 100/1 Honduras 1000/1 Portugal 25/1 South Africa 125/1 North Korea 2000/1 Ivory Coast 30/1 Australia 125/1 New Zealand 2000/1 Paraguay 66/1 Denmark 125/1
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onifre Member (Idle past 2977 days) Posts: 4854 From: Dark Side of the Moon Joined: |
My final four pick: Spain, Argentina, Ivory Coast and Italy.
- Oni
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Straggler Member (Idle past 91 days) Posts: 10333 From: London England Joined:
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Never discount the friggin germans.
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onifre Member (Idle past 2977 days) Posts: 4854 From: Dark Side of the Moon Joined: |
Yeah I pretty much flipped a coin between Italy and Germany.
You guys too. But I couldn't bring myself to give it to you. - Oni
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Straggler Member (Idle past 91 days) Posts: 10333 From: London England Joined: |
You guys too. But I couldn't bring myself to give it to you. Every competition the entire nation, press and even I suspect team, convince themselves that this time we are amongst the favourites. Then we predictably go out on penalties in the quarter finals. Probably to Germany. Bastards. I'm a bit drunk. BTW.
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onifre Member (Idle past 2977 days) Posts: 4854 From: Dark Side of the Moon Joined: |
Then we predictably go out on penalties in the quarter finals. Probably to Germany. Bastards. Spoken like a true fan.
I'm a bit drunk. BTW. Cheers! It's 2 hours before my show so I'm baked. - Oni
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Straggler Member (Idle past 91 days) Posts: 10333 From: London England Joined: |
I'm a bit drunk. BTW. Cheers! It's 2 hours before my show so I'm baked. Good for you. I nearly entered the whole dick waving thang with you, Rrhain and Mod in the humour thread. But then I decided I am not that drunk. G'night....... ZZZZZzzzzz ZZZZZZZZzzzzzz
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Arphy Member (Idle past 4458 days) Posts: 185 From: New Zealand Joined: |
Yay, we (NZ) finally made it to the World Cup again!
OK, to be honest, if NZ win a game i'll be ecstatic. But still, should be pretty exciting. When NZ scored that goal against Bahrain to qualify for the world cup it was definitely party time. Here's hoping they beat Slovakia! To be fair, I'll probably spend more time cheering on my country of birth (Germany). Despite losing Ballack, I still reckon it might be time to lift that trophy again Somehow, i don't think the chances of the two teams meeting is very great but if (by some miracle) it somehow works out that they do, I wonder who i would cheer for? Anyhoo, just thought I'd throw my thoughts in there, cos I'm pretty amped for this show to get started, bring it on!
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Jumped Up Chimpanzee Member (Idle past 4968 days) Posts: 572 From: UK Joined: |
To be fair, I'll probably spend more time cheering on my country of birth (Germany). Despite losing Ballack, I still reckon it might be time to lift that trophy again I couldn't let that slip by! Don't be greedy! Since England last won it you've won it twice and been runners up 3 times! And you've blatantly cheated by coaching and preparing your players on how to play international football! Don't you understand? You must flog your players to death during the domestic season, and then play them in the World Cup in completely different systems and positions to what they are used to.
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caffeine Member (Idle past 1050 days) Posts: 1800 From: Prague, Czech Republic Joined: |
quote: We're more likely to get knocked out by Argentina in the quarter-finals, in some jammy and undeserved victory despite their total absence of any tactical leadership. Oh well. My original semi final predictions were England-Holland and Spain-France, but the second time I tried working it out I got England-France and Spain-Brazil. I'm not sure if my opinions changed or I just keep making mistakes.
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Straggler Member (Idle past 91 days) Posts: 10333 From: London England Joined: |
We're more likely to get knocked out by Argentina in the quarter-finals, in some jammy and undeserved victory despite their total absence of any tactical leadership. Oh well. My better half is Argentinian. So that had better not happen. Apart from anything else my 4 year old son is about to expereince his first world cup and is in danger of becoming a lifelong Argentina suporter if that happens I am happy that he is a mongrel child in almost every way. But he has to grow up supporting England at sport. This is not up for debate.
My original semi final predictions were England-Holland and Spain-France, but the second time I tried working it out I got England-France and Spain-Brazil. I'm not sure if my opinions changed or I just keep making mistakes. Have a few beers and then try again. that is my advice
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Taq Member Posts: 10073 Joined: Member Rating: 5.2 |
Every competition the entire nation, press and even I suspect team, convince themselves that this time we are amongst the favourites. US fans are more realistic. A successful World Cup for the US would be to beat England, make it out of pool play, and win their first match in the elimination rounds. Anything after that is gravy. US soccer (sorry, we will always call it soccer) is on the rise. Every year there are more and more US players in the top European leagues. Its only matter of time before the US becomes one of the powerhouses, but that time is not now.
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