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Author Topic:   If complexity requires design, where did the Deity come from?
Jzyehoshua
Member (Idle past 782 days)
Posts: 153
Joined: 06-10-2010


Message 25 of 111 (564958)
06-14-2010 3:25 AM


Physiologically, everything must have a beginning. The 2nd law of thermodynamics illustrates principles of decay. The law of abiogenesis says life cannot come from non-life.
Nonetheless, the Bible at least does not claim a God who is of physiological basis or subject to the laws of a material plane. Rather:
quote:
John 4:24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
I.e. while physical beings cannot come from an eternal physical being, it is possible a being from another plane may not be bound by such temporal limitations, either in terms of power, self-existence, or longevity.
Edited by Jzyehoshua, : No reason given.
Edited by Jzyehoshua, : No reason given.

Replies to this message:
 Message 30 by Theodoric, posted 06-14-2010 9:25 AM Jzyehoshua has replied
 Message 36 by Larni, posted 06-20-2010 5:58 AM Jzyehoshua has not replied

  
Jzyehoshua
Member (Idle past 782 days)
Posts: 153
Joined: 06-10-2010


Message 26 of 111 (564959)
06-14-2010 3:31 AM


This concept is illustrated Biblically.
quote:
2 Corinthians 4:18 While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal.
With a physical beginning, you're left to constantly wonder, 'but where did that come from'? Physical things require a beginning and an end. They are of necessity temporal, fleeting, and subject to the laws of time.
Nothing of true value is to be found in the purely material, thus it is ironic that one would bind oneself to believing in only that which is subject to such laws. You decide for yourself you will never find anything of true value.

Replies to this message:
 Message 27 by Jumped Up Chimpanzee, posted 06-14-2010 4:27 AM Jzyehoshua has replied

  
Jzyehoshua
Member (Idle past 782 days)
Posts: 153
Joined: 06-10-2010


Message 28 of 111 (564970)
06-14-2010 4:43 AM
Reply to: Message 27 by Jumped Up Chimpanzee
06-14-2010 4:27 AM


It illustrates that anything physical is temporary while the unseen is eternal. As this pertains to a potential Creator:
quote:
Romans 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
1 Timothy 1:17 Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever. Amen.
Therefore, God is not temporary as the physical is. He is described as 'eternal, immortal, invisible', a 'Spirit' and thus not subject to the same laws of physics which require a material beginning.
To my knowledge, the laws of science have yet to fully investigate the realm of spirit, what makes a person a person, or is responsible for morality. In dealing only with the physically testable and observable is neglected much of what's most important.
Love, honor, justice - as Romans 1:20 stated, even the most hardened atheists would recognize those acting in violation of such concepts are doing something 'wrong', whether they want to admit it or not. These concepts are not subject to the material realm or physically observable, we can't prove when they began or from what, yet are there all the same.
I stand by my point. A spiritual realm, and the concepts and beings which are part of it may not be subject to the same limitations which require a beginning.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 27 by Jumped Up Chimpanzee, posted 06-14-2010 4:27 AM Jumped Up Chimpanzee has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 29 by Jumped Up Chimpanzee, posted 06-14-2010 6:01 AM Jzyehoshua has not replied

  
Jzyehoshua
Member (Idle past 782 days)
Posts: 153
Joined: 06-10-2010


Message 31 of 111 (565057)
06-14-2010 2:13 PM
Reply to: Message 30 by Theodoric
06-14-2010 9:25 AM


There is no such scientific law. If you want to present evidence of such a thing please go ahead. Also, what does the 2nd law of thermo have to do with this discussion.
Alright, so I accidentally called it the law of 'abiogenesis' instead of 'biogenesis'. It obviously exists though.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 30 by Theodoric, posted 06-14-2010 9:25 AM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 32 by Theodoric, posted 06-14-2010 4:42 PM Jzyehoshua has not replied

  
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