Straightforward, hard-to-answer-questions about the Bible/Christianity

"Or should you write some scientific reports to conclude that "void after death is proven"?"Maybe us christians should ask you to show us some scientific reports on the "void before life"? Can you explain, what is a singularity again?I find it amusing that you cut down Christianity because people have faith. Faith is the foundation of religion. Science is the foundation of evolution (or lack thereof). This is the big difference between us. Faith is required by us, evidence is required by you. Although there is evidence for christianity, and a young earth, it is not required to be a CHRISTIAN. Faith, and forgiveness is.

"Well, thanks for supporting me in my stance that god condoned slavery. Here we even see him commanding it."God was neutral on the subject of slavery, because it was not BAD. In fact, God wanted Joshua to kill Gibeon, along with the other tribes. God commands Joshua a number of times to leave no one alive, to kill the animals, and destroy the crops.Lets put it into perspective for a moment. If you and I knew each other, and I lost everything in a fire. All my cattle, my house and crops...everything. Would you take me in at your house, and pay me to work for you? Because Biblically, this is slavery. Slaves were paid, allowd to have families, and leave with everything they came with."Yet he is against such things. How very clear he makes that. Well, thanks for supporting me in my stance that god condoned slavery. Here we even see him commanding it.
Thank you very much Denis! You just destroyed Dr. Sing's point completely. How nice of you.So, here we even have god directly telling his subjects they must take slaves. Yet he is against such things. How very clear he makes that."God is not against persecution of any kind. The bible teaches blessed are those that are persecuted in my name:"11"Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. 12Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you."
Matthew 5:11-12Even if slavery were seen as evil or bad (and in was in the case of the israelites and the egyptions), God does not turn a blind eye, but loves you for loving and obeying him, no matter the conditions.

[10] When thou goest forth to war against thine enemies, and the Lord thy God hath delivered them into thine hands, and thou hast taken them captive, [11] And seest among the captives a beautiful woman, and hast a desire unto her, that thou wouldest have her to thy wife; [12] Then thou shalt bring her home to thine house; and she shall shave her head, and pare [1] her nails; [13] And she shall put the raiment of her captivity from off her, and shall remain in thine house, and bewail her father and her mother a full month: and after that thou shalt go in unto her, and be her husband, and she shall be thy wife. [14] And it shall be, if thou have no delight in her, then thou shalt let her go whither she will; but thou shalt not sell her at all for money, thou shalt not make merchandise of her, because thou hast humbled her.
Deuteronomy 21:10-14I don't see rape anywhere her. However, if you read all of Dueteronomy 21, it outlines rules for wives, rights of first born, rules on capital punishment, etc.This chapter is dealing with people in a position of power. Victors in battle, parents, etc. God is clearly outlining that your power was not to be abused. Although after a battle, the victors were allowed to place lots on goods and on the people, they were required to follow strict guidelines.Women of the defeated may also consider going with the victors because most or all of their men would be dead. As well, these practices were of the old covenant. Jews were also allowed to have more than one wife in this time. This is considered wrong in the new convenant.I believe it's also important to look at the shaving of the head, and paring of the nails. This more than likely represented, removing of the old life (since the women taken captive in this instance were not jewish), and changing into the new one.

"It clearly says: if you see a woman you want, take her as your "wife", give her time to mourn, then fuck her."I fail to see the latter. Sorry man.Please show me where it says RAPE her, or take her against her will. I'm not seeing it.

"Please show me where the man is told to ask for the woman's consent before taking her as his wife."I can't, and neither can you. Going in unto her could very well mean taking her into your family, in your house, in your tribe, etc. This seems open to interpretation, but I can't see God saying rape her good. Sorry.

"Slavery wasn't bad? Treating other people as your property is not BAD?"I have a nine month old. He's really cute right now, but when he gets older, he will learn responsibility, and work ethic, by doing chores around the house, and listening to his mother, and myself, when we ask something of him. The government says I am responsible for him until he is 18 years old (pretty sure it's the same in the US). So this person, of whom I am responsible for, performs work, for no money. How does this relationship work? He cares for me, and I care for him. Only difference between slaves in the Bible, and my son is this:Cole is not getting anything for his work when he is free to go, other than the lesson."slaves don't get paid."Not modern ones.Colossians 4:1
1 Masters, give your bondservants what is just and fair, knowing that you also have a Master in heaven."He's a bit of a dick then"Thats an opinion, not a fact. But God loves the humble man. To serve others is held in the highest regard by God.

"It clearly states what the soldier wants. Then it states if the soldier does not want her..he is to release her."Yes. The victorious tribe cast lots on any spoils, being it women, gold, land, etc. No denying that."This is rape and slavery."The other guy debating is intending to imply rape, but I answered this in my previous post. And not slavery, since if the man does not want to marry her, she is to go free, and cannot be sold."You invade a land. You kill the husbands and sons of the women."This depends on the story you are refering to in the Bible. Killing only the men was not always the case."Do you really believe a woman then wants you to be her husband?"Under the old covenant, it would be irrelevant. After her period of mourning, I would be entitled to marry her if I cast a lot for her."Think about this honestly."Honestly, I think it's brutal. But I'm not a soldier, nor do I live under the old covenant. As well, I can't speak to the state of mind of the women or the soldiers.

Is it not true? Are you required to pay your son anything for chores? Yet this is socially acceptable.Jacob worked as a slave for 7 years for free to get his wife Racheal (Genesis 29). And he was even decieved, and forced to work another 7 years.

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Either, as long as the opinion conveyed is derogatory.

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"God, I pray that you would be with Phage, and that his first child will be healthy."The bad version of this would be?

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It is possible to be unintentionally insulting, do you agree?

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Of course. Many people are offended by this. My uncle almost slapped the white off me when I told him I was praying for him. But some people find it offensive to drive cars, since they are a greenhouse contributor. Does this mean everyone MUST stop driving now, or that in any way driving is bad?

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But we are not talking about POW's. Those are people taken in time of war and released following the war.

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Sometimes.

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The Bible has god commanding the Hebrews to invade a land, kill all the men and TAKE the women.

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I'm not sure where we are in the Bible. Which book and chapter are we talking about?

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So you're disagreeing with Denis who stated there was never any slavery condoned by god

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God did command his people to take tribes as slaves. I will look it up tonight, and post the verse. I did post it much earlier on on this thread though...

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I was originally debating Denis who stated that the Bible does not condone rape or slavery.

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The Bible never makes mention of God approving of slavery or rape, but it was used by Gods people, so I would assume that slavery was acceptable in Gods eyes.

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Force her to their home. Force sex upon her. Denis tried to make it out that she was willing.

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First, it's DENNIS, not Denis. Second, in any translation of the Bible (I looked up 5), there is no mention of FORCED sex.However, in Genesis 34:1-7, a rape does occur. A man named Shechem rapes Dinah, the daughter of Leah. And in chapter 7:"And the sons of Jacob came in from the field when they heard it; and the men were grieved and very angry, because he had done a disgraceful thing in Israel by lying with Jacobs daughter, a thing that ought not to be done."This verse clearly says that rape is disgraceful in Israel, and that the brothers and father of Dinah were upset. Shechum asks for Dinahs hand in marriage, and Jacob says no, because he raped her. This shows that it was not socially acceptable to rape. Rules of war would be somewhat different.

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But an all knowing god? He could create many miraculous scenarios that could feed the women, without them being taken.

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Devine intervention takes place many times, and Jesus feeds a multitude (later in the new testiment). In this case (I hope Im reading the same story you guys are), the Israelites were Gods chosen people. God would not have performed a miracle for someone who didn't believe in him, and therefore would not have asked.

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Im sorry...but I've been debating for quite a few years. Its not that one "sees' it differently, its one twisting scripture bc they cannot accept it for what it states. It clearly states the following:

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1) Among the captives, if you see a woman take her. Notice there isnt a choice involved.
2) She is to become the captors wife. Notice she does not have a choice.
3) After she is a wife, let her mourn for a month. Then have sex with her. Notice a choice is still not offered.
4) The very last verse states she was under compulsion. This means forced.

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debating for a few years? How is it then that you are so wrong? Step 2 is completely wrong, since the man is obligated to WAIT one month before he can marry her. HE also has no choice in this.

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Which is the point. There is one god today according to Christianity. Who loves all mankind. Yet according to the OT, and your words, that isnt the case.

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Find me any verse in the Bible that says that God does not love those who are not saved. Then, when you can't, I'll find you some that say he loves EVERYONE, no matter what. If you honestly believe that Jews are all that matters to God, then you are misinformed.And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world. 1st John 2:2"For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life. John 3:16 (you'll notice it does not say, for God so loved the Jews).But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. Romans 5:8

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to help and/or solve problems

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He did, and still does. Generally, you have to ask for help. My friend Hugh was in a quadding accident. Doctors gave him a 1% chance of living. He survived. Doctors told his wife and I that he would be a vegetable. He works for a major oil company as a power engineer today. He's also a christian now. He wasn't saved before.

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Why? Bc its man doing the actions, attributing them to their god.

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Yes. God works through his people.

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but others might not appreciate the sentiment itself or misinterpret your meaning.

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I don't argue this. Though, even if someone is offended by it, does it mean that christians are not to pray for this person? The bible commands his people to love everyone, even love your enemies. I can see why people do not like it. I have friends who argue that if God knows everything, future and past, then their life is predetermined, and they don't like it. Which is a valid arguement, that can be debated to some extent.

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Why does your God need to be with me?

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If christianity is true, then God is everywhere, including with you now. The prayer is intended to show God that you are thinking about someone else, and that you hope for good things in their life.

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Are you suggesting that I cannot take care of myself

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A life not God centered is not directed (again, if christianity is true). I know for a fact that I cannot take care of myself. In this physical world, perhaps, but I know there is nothing I can do here that will get me into heaven. I have to follow Gods plan for my life, and believe that Jesus died for my sins. In short, no.

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less capable of operating without special supervision?

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Again, if Chrisitianity is accurate, you are always being supervised.

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However, you should realize that being insulting can have detrimental effects on your relationships between people.

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You have a solid point. I'll concede that. I have no doubt that my life could possibly involve more people in my life if I were more accepting of social activities (that I consider unacceptable now, such as drinking, and going to the bar). I could easily argue that I would have non-christian friends (I do have some now, but more than likely more), and christian, since most christians are taught to accept people dispite their beliefs.However, I think that christian or not, no one should give up their moral compass to be a more accepted member of society. The boundaries for this are different for everyone, but it's important to keep your morals intact. Those who don't accept you, probably shouldn't be around you anyways.

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Others believe that all true believers will be taken to heaven as is.

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They are wrong.Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall be changed — in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. 1 Corinthians 15:51"But we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as his is" 1st John 3:2The Bible says that when Jesus returns we shall be like him, and that we shall be changed.

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So if people can be taken to heaven with their physical bodies

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But we won't.

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And doesn't that mean that beside Jesus and Elijah

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"And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven." John 3:13Elijah did not accend into Gods thrown. In 2 Kings 2:11 :"And it came to pass, as they still went on, and talked, that, behold, there appeared a chariot of fire, and horses of fire, and parted them both asunder; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven."This passage is often mis interpreted to show that Elijah went into heaven in an earthly body, but this is not the case. If you read other parts of 2 Kings, as well as 1 Kings, Elijah had a habit of being taken away by God, only to re-appear elsewhere. This is because many people wanted to kill Elijah."10 As the LORD thy God liveth, there is no nation or kingdom, whither my lord hath not sent to seek thee: and when they said, He is not there; he took an oath of the kingdom and nation, that they found thee not. 11 And now thou sayest, Go, tell thy lord, Behold, Elijah is here. 12 And it shall come to pass, as soon as I am gone from thee, that the Spirit of the LORD shall carry thee whither I know not; and so when I come and tell Ahab, and he cannot find thee, he shall slay me: but I thy servant fear the LORD from my youth."
1 Kings 18:10-12Elijah's enemies often went to towns after reported 'Elisha sightings' (verse 10, no nation or kindom had favour in Elijah, and when they went there, they swore that he was gone). Though is would have appeared that Elijah was taken to heaven in 2 Kings, this actually is not the case. God frequently moved Elijah from city to city until he 'wore out his welcome' so to speak.

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That is fine until I ask them to stop.

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Some may, some may not. Though it is important to love and respect all of Gods people, religious or not, it is far more important to save as many people as possible. Christians don't take it to the extent that we are knocking at your door at dinner time (like the mormons and JW's), but we still have an obligation to God to share his word as often as possible.If I asked you to stop driving, would you?

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Stop playing dumb.

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Since I haven't been in this thread for some time, I think I was asking a valid question, since different stories require different points, and to argue effectively, I need to know where we are reading from. Shut it.

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Do you want to keep playing dumb? Do you want me to keep quoting more passages?

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I love you. God says to love your enemies."But Moses was furious with all the military commanders who had returned from the battle. "Why have you let all the women live?" he demanded. "These are the very ones who followed Balaam's advice and caused the people of Israel to rebel against the LORD at Mount Peor. They are the ones who caused the plague to strike the LORD's people. Now kill all the boys and all the women who have slept with a man. Only the young girls who are virgins may live; you may keep them for yourselves."
Numbers 31:14-18This is another example of armies killing the women and children. This, as well as the Jericho story can be explained readily. Before Christ, everything had physical requirements. Gods people paid for their sins by sacrificing a clean animal to God. Men were required to be physically circumsized, etc.The people that were killed were not saved, and did not pay for their sins, and under the covenant with Abram (or Abraham), God delivered the land to his decendants.Some 500 years after the flood, nations that descended from Shem, Ham and Japheth had turned from the true God and made their own ‘gods’ — idols of wood and stone — with elaborate systems of worship of their own devising, often involving human sacrifice.These people did not have favour in Gods eyes. Virgins could be cleansed, since they had not laid with a man who was not saved. The Bible says that a child is born with the sins of his/her father in Romans 8, and thus the children would have been born into sin (this is also the reason Jesus did not have an earthly father).The Christian God is a loving, but very strict one. This is evident in the Soddom and Gommorah, the flood, and in the end times stories, that everyone was destroyed in. The people that were killed did not believe in God.So I suppose to answer your question, the virgins were kept not to be raped, but to become members of Gods people (though the Bible does not say whether they were raped or not, this action would be contradictory to the teachings of Jesus, and the Ten Commmandments, that say to love your neighbor as yourself). The story of Jacobs daughter being raped also implies, that since Jacob and his sons were angry about the rape, it was not socially acceptable to rape, especially within Gods tribes.