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Author Topic:   Humans faults and evolutionary biology
hotjer
Member (Idle past 4566 days)
Posts: 113
From: Denmark
Joined: 04-02-2010


Message 5 of 40 (566251)
06-23-2010 5:40 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Kairyu
06-23-2010 11:21 AM


Theology n' Science
Hi WSW24 and welcome
Human are not just prone to sin, but we are born sinners because of what Adam and Eve did. When we say God hates sin it should be interpret as God hates when people break his commandments. When you commit sin you are a slave of sin and God needs to punish you, otherwise he would not be God, since God is justice. You are an enemy of God, which means; you are an enemy of God’s laws. We need the justice and holiness that God demands, and he demands we are 100 per cent loyal towards his Laws. However, it is the humans that owe God something and that God that owe him self. God needed to condemn us to death and everlasting suffering if he did not do anything, thus it really was the humans that paid, but in the same time the price that only God could pay (and therefore he sacrificed Jesus you know the rest). God did not create us with sin but we became sinful and now we are born with sin. We are all filthy sinners, especially if you ask Luther’s opinion.
Regarding anger, sexual desire, desire to dominate, human being influenceable(??) they can be viewed as positive. Without going too much into details; anger: Why do we get angry? That is when we feel offended or mistreated. It is a way to make other people aware of your own feelings is through anger. Desire to dominate: Depending on what degree you think of dominate my answer will vary — to be a leader is not a bad thing, you are dominating but not in a necessarily bad way. Sexual desire; sex is not a bad thing. It is good for your health, it helps you to make cute babies — in fact it is bad to suppress your own sexual desires (if we just look at your own health).
In any case, I really think you should separate these two things. I understand why you want to mix it together since you speak of theistic evolution, but it would probably help you tremendously if you did study theology and science separated.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Kairyu, posted 06-23-2010 11:21 AM Kairyu has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 7 by Taq, posted 06-23-2010 5:47 PM hotjer has replied
 Message 9 by Kairyu, posted 06-24-2010 4:31 AM hotjer has replied
 Message 12 by Woodsy, posted 06-24-2010 7:18 AM hotjer has replied

  
hotjer
Member (Idle past 4566 days)
Posts: 113
From: Denmark
Joined: 04-02-2010


Message 8 of 40 (566301)
06-24-2010 4:29 AM
Reply to: Message 7 by Taq
06-23-2010 5:47 PM


Re: Theology n' Science
Might be the question. Here I would prefer, simply, to point to the field of psychology, but that is probably not a answer he can use. In a theological point of view is it The Fall (simplified), however, we can explain the same things with natural processes and end up concluding it is a natural phenemonon. That is not too informative but I think it should be okay for a start.
My point was more about that such feelings is not necessary because you are "evil" but because bad things happened to you - again, why threat other people? Free Will, natural processes? Could be the same in the end.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by Taq, posted 06-23-2010 5:47 PM Taq has not replied

  
hotjer
Member (Idle past 4566 days)
Posts: 113
From: Denmark
Joined: 04-02-2010


Message 10 of 40 (566303)
06-24-2010 4:56 AM
Reply to: Message 9 by Kairyu
06-24-2010 4:31 AM


Re: Theology n' Science
Of course they are connected, but it seems to me you make some errors in your way of thoughts because you connect them.
Here in Denmark we have some very well educated priests. They go through 6 years of university studies in theology and 1 year on a priest/church school after that. The point; what they do is working with the axiom that God of the Abraham religions exist and then try to understand the paradoxes within these religions. Probably, most of them are agnostic atheist (just like me) but I bet they have good idea of how to understand the paradoxes that you i.e. refer to.
In God's view we are all equal no matter how many sin we commit; you and I are as sinful as the rough thug. We are all so damn filthy and sinful, so filthty filthy!
However, now I am an agnostic atheist and do not believe in the idea of God. Now, join the dark side (atheism), we got cookies!
No, seriously, if your belief in God does not make sense it might be a hint.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by Kairyu, posted 06-24-2010 4:31 AM Kairyu has not replied

  
hotjer
Member (Idle past 4566 days)
Posts: 113
From: Denmark
Joined: 04-02-2010


Message 13 of 40 (566320)
06-24-2010 8:23 AM
Reply to: Message 12 by Woodsy
06-24-2010 7:18 AM


Re: Theology n' Science
I am an agnostic atheist so I do not believe it myself (am I still being conned?). Anyways, I understand you line of thoughts but I do not agree fully with you.
When I say we are all filthy sinners, I mean everyone, everyone is guilty and in that sence equal (sinners). What I did not say which I took for granted, is that your relationship with God is personal. A priest are able to tell you a lot of useful stuff about the bible and help you understand the paradoxes involving when you believe in God, but he is in no sence above you when it comes to whom is closer to God, not even the Pope is closer to God (surely some will disagree)
Again, I am an agnostic atheist and even if I was a Christian according to these standards, I would not be terrified by other people but God - in a more complex way.
I bit off-topic maybe, but I hope it is okay.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by Woodsy, posted 06-24-2010 7:18 AM Woodsy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 15 by Woodsy, posted 06-24-2010 9:12 AM hotjer has replied

  
hotjer
Member (Idle past 4566 days)
Posts: 113
From: Denmark
Joined: 04-02-2010


Message 17 of 40 (566337)
06-24-2010 9:59 AM
Reply to: Message 15 by Woodsy
06-24-2010 9:12 AM


Re: Theology n' Science
Ahh
but it is not a ploy by the priests, at least not in the sense I speak of it. I was trying to speak as a Lutheraner/protestant. They do not want that kind of power since they are sinners just like other people and therefor not more worthy than other people.
However, I understand your line of thoughts but I suspect it is more of an American (and maybe Catholic) than a Scandinavian/Protestant phenomenon. Personally, I voluntarily give money to the church through my taxes; not because I am Christian as said earlier, but because I think it is a good thing for the society and culture to have such church we as have here (in Denmark).
Anyways, let us end it here or PM me. This seems way to off-topic.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by Woodsy, posted 06-24-2010 9:12 AM Woodsy has not replied

  
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