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Author Topic:   Jesus the rabbi ?
phil
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Message 11 of 42 (56072)
09-17-2003 3:45 PM
Reply to: Message 10 by Rubten
09-17-2003 2:19 PM


Re: Was Jesus a Rabbi?
Was Jesus' wedding in the New Testament? I believe so. Remember the "water into wine" story? Why was his mother there? Why would she, being a guest as we assume was Jesus, command Jesus to make wine? Why then is he refered to as "bridegroom"?
This is just plain wrong. John 2 says:
1On the third day a wedding took place at Cana in Galilee. Jesus' mother was there, 2and Jesus and his disciples had also been invited to the wedding. 3When the wine was gone, Jesus' mother said to him, "They have no more wine."
4"Dear woman, why do you involve me?" Jesus replied, "My time has not yet come."
5His mother said to the servants, "Do whatever he tells you."
6Nearby stood six stone water jars, the kind used by the Jews for ceremonial washing, each holding from twenty to thirty gallons.
7Jesus said to the servants, "Fill the jars with water"; so they filled them to the brim.
8Then he told them, "Now draw some out and take it to the master of the banquet."
9They did so, and the master of the banquet tasted the water that had been turned into wine. He did not realize where it had come from, though the servants who had drawn the water knew. Then he called the bridegroom aside 10and said, "Everyone brings out the choice wine first and then the cheaper wine after the guests have had too much to drink; but you have saved the best till now."
11This, the first of his miraculous signs, Jesus performed in Cana of Galilee. He thus revealed his glory, and his disciples put their faith in him.
Why would Jesus be invited to his own wedding? Also, why would Jesus call himself aside? Jesus was NOT the bridegroom in this passage. Nothing in this passage even suggests that.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by Rubten, posted 09-17-2003 2:19 PM Rubten has not replied

     
phil
Guest


Message 14 of 42 (56343)
09-18-2003 6:15 PM
Reply to: Message 13 by Rubten
09-18-2003 5:10 PM


I looked over the King James Version, and, at first, I was puzzled. Here is the passage in question (highlighting key parts):
Jhn 2:1 And the third day there was a marriage in Cana of Galilee; and the mother of Jesus was there:
Jhn 2:2 And both Jesus was called*, and his disciples, to the marriage.
Jhn 2:3 And when they wanted wine, the mother of Jesus saith unto him, They have no wine.
Jhn 2:4 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, what have I to do with thee? mine hour is not yet come.
Jhn 2:5 His mother saith unto the servants, Whatsoever he saith unto you, do [it].
Jhn 2:6 And there were set there six waterpots of stone, after the manner of the purifying of the Jews, containing two or three firkins apiece.
Jhn 2:7 Jesus saith unto them, Fill the waterpots with water. And they filled them up to the brim.
Jhn 2:8 And he saith unto them, Draw out now, and bear unto the governor of the feast. And they bare [it].
Jhn 2:9 When the ruler of the feast had tasted the water that was made wine, and KNEW NOT WHENCE IT WAS: ( but the servants which drew the water knew; ) the governor of the feast called the bridegroom,
Jhn 2:10 And saith unto him, Every man at the beginning doth set forth good wine; and when men have well drunk, then that which is worse: [but] thou hast kept the good wine until now.
First, I would like to address verse 2 (in black):
In the King James Version there is a "footnote" indicating that "called" is synonymous with "invited" here. Furthermore, the same verb is used for both Jesus and his disciples, indicating that they were "called" in the same manner ("called" cannot have different meanings for both Jesus and his disciples).
Now, verse 9 (in yellow):
The verse says that the ruler of the feast tastes the water that was made into wine and did not know where it came from (he did not know of the miracle Jesus had performed). The governor of the feast figures it was the bridegroom (who is not Jesus) because it is the bridegroom's wedding, and he would have made the arrangements for it. The governor then compliments the bridegroom for having saved the best wine until the end.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by Rubten, posted 09-18-2003 5:10 PM Rubten has not replied

     
phil
Guest


Message 19 of 42 (56556)
09-19-2003 5:38 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by Rubten
09-18-2003 7:22 PM


Why would Jesus be Responsible to "make wine" if it is not his wedding? Showing charity? C'mon. Opne your mind a little. it was his wedding. He was married that day! Where was the wedding anyway? When you answer that, ask yourself where Lazarus was "believed" to have risen from the grave. Then ask yourself if Lazarus was not Mary Magdalene's brother. IF that is not far along enough, then ask yourself why Mary Magdalene is treated so well by Jesus? Why are his disciples jealous of "their" relationship? Go back and read all the passages that deal with Mary Magdalene, then use some logic and sense.
Open my mind to what? Something based entirely on false premises? Even Crashfrog and Mr. Jack agree with me here. It's not a matter of opening your mind to something, it's simple reading comprehension. Also, I do not know of ANY passages (having read all the gospels several times) where it is indicated that Jesus' disciples are jealous of Mary Magdalene. I get the sense that your theory is based upon da Vinci's Last Supper, painted a millenium and a half later. Also, why would Jesus tell Mary his "time had not yet come" if it were his wedding? And Mary wouldn't be "troubling him" by asking him to make wine if it were his own wedding.
Does anyone agree with Rubten here? If so, then maybe there is something to his theory here, but I just don't see it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by Rubten, posted 09-18-2003 7:22 PM Rubten has not replied

     
phil
Guest


Message 24 of 42 (56682)
09-20-2003 5:44 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by Rubten
09-20-2003 5:31 PM


Are you serious?
Mark 2:19-20 is a parable. Now, Jesus might be comparing himself to the bridegroom in the parable, but that in no way means he is married.
And I see nothing in the "Jessie's Girl" lyrics that point to Jesus and Mary Magdalene. Please tell me you're just joking. . . .

This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by Rubten, posted 09-20-2003 5:31 PM Rubten has not replied

Replies to this message:
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