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Junior Member (Idle past 5287 days) Posts: 1 From: Austin, TX, US Joined: |
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Author | Topic: Problems with evolution? Submit your questions. | |||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
Dr Adequate Member Posts: 16113 Joined:
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How does the mutation or natural selection produce new information? By producing new information.
This is the reason why people wanted you to be more precise in your definition.
Do you have an empirical example of a code or language that occurs naturally? Yeah, the human genome. I can beg the question just as much as you can. Bite me.
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Dr Adequate Member Posts: 16113 Joined:
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By selection and drift acting on random mutations, recombination, lateral gene transfer, and so forth. You may disagree with the answer that scientists give to your question, but don't go around pretending that you don't know what their answer is. You know perfectly well. Edited by Dr Adequate, : No reason given.
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Dr Adequate Member Posts: 16113 Joined:
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Is there anyway that information can begin to exist without being created? Well, that depends what you mean by "created". If you mean "caused to begin to exist", then the answer is NO. If you mean "poofed into existence out of nothing by an invisible magical fairy in the sky who doesn't actually exist", then the answer is YES.
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ICANT Member (Idle past 284 days) Posts: 6769 From: SSC Joined:
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Hi Coragyps,
Coragyps writes: Yup. The DNA in the nuclei of the cells (excluding red blood cells) in my body. You have a couple of trillion examples of your own. My parents produced my DNA I don't know where you got yours from. I would assume your parents. God Bless, "John 5:39 (KJS) Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me."
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subbie Member (Idle past 1511 days) Posts: 3509 Joined:
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Actually, I'm delighted with that definition. It's more than I've ever gotten out of any other creo. Of course, it conclusively refutes your claim that it takes information to make DNA, or even that DNA contains information. DNA came into existence through a natural combination of various molecules. The genetic material in DNA changes over time because of errors in the replication process and mutations. Thus, there is no sender or receiver. QED. Any other toughies? Edited by subbie, : Just cuz Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. Ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them; and no man ever had a distinct idea of the trinity. It is the mere Abracadabra of the mountebanks calling themselves the priests of Jesus. -- Thomas Jefferson For we know that our patchwork heritage is a strength, not a weakness. We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and non-believers. -- Barack Obama We see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- Phat It has always struck me as odd that fundies devote so much time and effort into trying to find a naturalistic explanation for their mythical flood, while looking for magical explanations for things that actually happened. -- Dr. Adequate
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Dr Adequate Member Posts: 16113 Joined: |
My parents produced my DNA I don't know where you got yours from. You are to my knowledge the first creationist honest enough to admit that information comes from natural causes rather than an invisible fairy who lives in the sky. I salute you.
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Dr Jack Member (Idle past 132 days) Posts: 3514 From: Immigrant in the land of Deutsch Joined:
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What difference does it make what is the sender? What difference does it make what is the receiver? What difference does it make what the message is? Er, it's your definition, if you don't know what these things are with respect to biological systems, how can we apply it to them?
Information as we know it comes from a mind. Bullshit. There's information all around us that doesn't come from minds. Look out the window, up at the sky - do you really think you receive no information about the weather? No information about the time of day?
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Peg Member (Idle past 5186 days) Posts: 2703 From: melbourne, australia Joined: |
I'd just like to know how the seeds that grow into all sorts of plants and trees evolved. What came first, the seed or the tree/plant?
(sorry if its already been asked, im coming in late)
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crashfrog Member (Idle past 1723 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined: |
What came first, the seed or the tree/plant? The seed, which grew from a plant that itself originally grew from a spore, some time during the Devonian era. As seeds are a more effective way to disperse offspring than spores, it's not surprising that the descendants of this first organism came to dominate the kingdom of plants. But plants which reproduce by spores instead of seeds are still with us, and they represent the descendants of some of the first terrestrial, vascular plants.
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Peg Member (Idle past 5186 days) Posts: 2703 From: melbourne, australia Joined: |
crashfrog writes: The seed, which grew from a plant that itself originally grew from a spore, some time during the Devonian era. so the seed came first and it grew from a plant which grew from a spore! That makes no sense at all. If the seed grows from a plant, then the plant came first then again, the plant came from a spore so the spore came first....hence a spore produced a plant which produced seed. So that takes us to the spore..... how did the spore evolve and from what?
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crashfrog Member (Idle past 1723 days) Posts: 19762 From: Silver Spring, MD Joined:
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That makes no sense at all. If the seed grows from a plant, then the plant came first If you like. Sure, the plant came first.
So that takes us to the spore... Right, the spore which came from a spore-bearing plant, like today's ferns. What did ferns evolve from? The first terrestrial, vascular plants. What did those evolve from? Vascular plants that grew in the sea, like seaweeds. What did those evolve from? Sea algaes that lived in multicellular colonies. What did those evolve from? Sea algaes that lived unicellularly. Those? Cyanobacteria. (I'm skipping over a lot of steps and about half a billion years.) Cyanobacteria evolved from chemosynthetic bacteria living at sea floor vents, probably. Those evolved from some of the first living things, ever. That takes us all the way back to LUCA, the cenacestor, the organism who was the common ancestor of all species of life on Earth, approximately 3.8 billion years before the present day.
how did the spore evolve and from what? If the sense you're getting is that I'm playing a game of this evolved from that, and that from this other, and that from something yet older.... and so on, and you're wondering "ok but where does that all end?", well, it ends at the beginning - with the Last Universal Common Ancestor (LUCA), because all living things on Earth are descended, ultimately, from a single living organism that lived almost 4 billion years ago. It's pretty fuckin' sweet, if you ask me.
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bluescat48 Member (Idle past 4446 days) Posts: 2347 From: United States Joined: |
so the seed came first and it grew from a plant which grew from a spore! That makes no sense at all. If the seed grows from a plant, then the plant came first then again, the plant came from a spore so the spore came first....hence a spore produced a plant which produced seed. So that takes us to the spore..... how did the spore evolve and from what? You appear to be reasoning that this occurred in 1 generation.This occurred over millions of years, thousands, if not millions of generations. Evolution does not occur as, the fundie creos try to reason that it has to occur at once, but in stages taking numerous generations. The spore plant didn't suddenly produce a seed plant, but over generations the spore bearing plants became seed plants. There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002 Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969 Since Evolution is only ~90% correct it should be thrown out and replaced by Creation which has even a lower % of correctness. W T Young, 2008
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Taq Member Posts: 10302 Joined: Member Rating: 7.1
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Thousands of years ago no one spoke french. Now there are millions of people who speak french. How could this happen? Who did the first french speaker talk to? Edited by Taq, : No reason given.
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Tram law Member (Idle past 4961 days) Posts: 283 From: Weed, California, USA Joined: |
Does DNA disprove evolution?
If it can't show that we have a common ancestor? If it can't be mapped all the way back to the time when life first began? What is the DNA evidence to support or disprove evolution?
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Huntard Member (Idle past 2552 days) Posts: 2870 From: Limburg, The Netherlands Joined: |
Tram law writes:
No, in fact it is strong evidence for it.
Does DNA disprove evolution? If it can't show that we have a common ancestor?
But it does show that. Check out ERV's or human chromosome 2 (I'm assuming you're talking about humans and other apes here).
f it can't be mapped all the way back to the time when life first began?
What do you mean with this?
What is the DNA evidence to support or disprove evolution?
Plenty, start here
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