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Author Topic:   Return to Immortality -- There is no death by natural causes
celestialGyoud
Member (Idle past 10 days)
Posts: 554
From: Roraima Peak
Joined: 02-11-2004


Message 61 of 100 (562302)
05-27-2010 6:51 PM
Reply to: Message 60 by Phage0070
05-27-2010 6:22 PM


Re: Answering the six billion diamond question
-

Phage0070 writes:

....People require food, shelter, ...

-

Is there any evidence that the basic limit of 1 million inhabitants, (who would have been living on the Earth 49 thousand years ago), would have been not able to create and do all things that the Humans (in the last and single cluster of 7 thousand years), have done when the population of the Earth was 1 million inhabitants?

It is not possible for one to prove that the answer is wrong by a type of probability that is credited or presumed, which takes something other than knowledge of the facts as a reason to presume that the fact could or could not have happened.

quote:
Whenever a reason is established to presume that a real fact could or could not have taken place, that probability is presumed and is similar to the type of probability that the natural selection theory for the origin of the Human body has had the habit to offer to the inhabitants of the land. And whenever it is stated that past events dont have probabilities it is stated in reference to a type of probability that is credited or presumed. .

-

If one separates the last 49 thousand years dividing it into three separated sequences of 14 thousand years, immediately prior to the last seven thousand years,

What are the probabilities that the population would have reached 6 billion persons in each of the three seasons of 14 thousand years immediately prior to the last 7 thousand years?

-

Due to the perspective that there would have been Humans living on the Earth 70 thousand years ago, the probability of reaching 6 billion persons in each of the three seasons of 14 thousand years is above 100% because of the fact that when the population of the Earth was 1 million persons it took much less than 7 thousand years to reach 1 billion.

-

70 thousand years ago . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Minimum extreme limit: . . . . . . . . . 10,000 inhabitants
50 thousand years ago . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Basic extreme limit: . . . . . . . . 1 million inhabitants

49 thousand years ago . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . The beginning of the three seasons of 14 thousand years

-

Making the distinction between ascertained probability (verified) and credited probability (when reason is applied to presume),

The probability that is ascertained does offer the possibility of one verifying that the probability is real because it is firmed into the foundation of real facts.

-

When answering that the probability of having reached 6 billion persons in each of the three seasons of 14 thousand years is: 0, since they didnt and zero; it never happened,

Does that point of view not fit with the parable of the diamonds robbed, where a man inside the bank states to the detective: Since the vault containing the diamonds that were evaluated at six billion, was robbed at 7:00 p.m., then it is the proof left for us not to even mention the probability of the vault being robbed the other day at 1:14 a.m., or at 2:14 a.m, or at 3:14 a.m. (time of the attempts to rob the bank 49 days prior to it being robbed), since that probability is Zero.

-

Edited by CrazyDiamond7, : update


This message is a reply to:
 Message 60 by Phage0070, posted 05-27-2010 6:22 PM Phage0070 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 62 by Straggler, posted 05-27-2010 7:00 PM celestialGyoud has not yet responded
 Message 63 by Phage0070, posted 05-27-2010 10:36 PM celestialGyoud has responded

  
Straggler
Member
Posts: 10284
From: London England
Joined: 09-30-2006


Message 62 of 100 (562303)
05-27-2010 7:00 PM
Reply to: Message 61 by celestialGyoud
05-27-2010 6:51 PM


Re: Answering the six billion diamond question
Are you saying that human technology, medicine agriculture and means of mass production have not improved in the last 50,000 years?

Or are you saying these factors are irrelevant?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 61 by celestialGyoud, posted 05-27-2010 6:51 PM celestialGyoud has not yet responded

Phage0070
Inactive Member


Message 63 of 100 (562343)
05-27-2010 10:36 PM
Reply to: Message 61 by celestialGyoud
05-27-2010 6:51 PM


Re: Answering the six billion diamond question
CrazyDiamond7 writes:

You do not have evidence that the basic limit of 1 million inhabitants, who would have been living on the Earth 49 thousand years ago, were less intelligent and would have not been able to create and do all things that the Humans in the last and single cluster of 7 thousand years have done, even when the population of the Earth was 1 million inhabitants.

Do you really think that there is no evidence humans have increased in technology that would aid their population within the last 50 thousand years?

I have to assume that this is a language barrier problem, as the alternative would be that you have no long-term memory.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 61 by celestialGyoud, posted 05-27-2010 6:51 PM celestialGyoud has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 75 by celestialGyoud, posted 09-01-2010 3:23 PM Phage0070 has not yet responded

celestialGyoud
Member (Idle past 10 days)
Posts: 554
From: Roraima Peak
Joined: 02-11-2004


Message 64 of 100 (562420)
05-28-2010 4:22 PM


Conclusion of the parable of the diamonds robbed
-

When answering that past events do not have probability the man inside the bank does clearly demonstrate an attempt to stop the job of the detectives,

because his only focus is on the final result of the bank being robbed, by highlighting only the impossibility that anyone would have reached that result, to justify that a person should definitely not quiz nor inquire about the fact that some many men had been planning to place themselves before the vault 49 days ago, saying,

Let everyone abandon that perspective of 70 days ago and cease from investigating the past attempts to rob the bank 49 days ago, (during the time that was mentioned, from 1:14 a.m. to 3:14 a.m.) since they didnt make it and the probability is Zero; it never happened. ---- A proposal similar to what many men have been doing when suggesting that the question is unnintelligeble and should not be asked.

Another coincidence is that the natural selection theory for the origin of the Human body, which many men precisely rely on, is the one that becomes obsolete when the investigation is complete for not abandoning the clear perspective of the past events that have been often proposed by the same natural selection theory when placing the Humans to live on the Earth 70 thousand years ago.

-

Therefore, for not presenting any evidence that the basic extreme limit of 1 million inhabitants could not reach 1 billion inhabitants in less than 7 thousand years, or that it could not reach 6 billion inhabitants in less than 14 thousand years, the zero probability that had been answered had been showing itself up to be applied to the theory that gave support to those many men,

because the natural selection theory for the origin of the Human body was made with the attempt to place them before the vault (as it was seen in the parable), for planning that the Humans would be there, but the six billion diamonds were not robbed in the time their theory attempted to.

-

Final conclusion ---- the phrase 'past events dont have probabilities' only works against the presumption or theory that becomes lost, when proof is produced against the lie, but in no moment, in real life, can it work to impede an investigation in progress.

-


A man inside the bank states to the detective: Since the vault containing the diamonds that were evaluated at six billion was robbed at 7:00 p.m., then it is the proof left for us not to even mention the probability of the vault being robbed the other day at 1:14 a.m., or at 2:14 a.m., or at 3:14 a.m. (time that the attempts to rob the bank occurred, 49 days prior to it being robbed) since that probability is Zero.

-

Edited by CrazyDiamond7, : update


Replies to this message:
 Message 65 by Phage0070, posted 05-29-2010 3:30 PM celestialGyoud has not yet responded

  
Phage0070
Inactive Member


Message 65 of 100 (562521)
05-29-2010 3:30 PM
Reply to: Message 64 by celestialGyoud
05-28-2010 4:22 PM


Re: Conclusion of the parable of the diamonds robbed
CrazyDiamond7 writes:

Lets abandon that perspective of 70 days ago, and lets not investigate the past attempts to rob the bank 49 days ago, (during the time that was mentioned, from 1:14 a.m. to 3:14 a.m.) since they didnt and the probability is Zero; it never happened. ---- A proposal similar to what many men have been doing when proposing that the question should not be asked.

To draw some parallels with human population growth, isn't it like the bank manager saying "I'm not interested in investigating bank robbery methods that don't work, I am interested in investigating the one that did,"? That seems like a reasonable approach to me.

Humans have been steadily increasing in their ability to sustain larger populations throughout history. Asking the probability of developing a given advancement at an earlier time is not only a pointless endeavor, but also likely impossible to meaningfully answer.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 64 by celestialGyoud, posted 05-28-2010 4:22 PM celestialGyoud has not yet responded

jessie
Member (Idle past 3159 days)
Posts: 74
Joined: 03-08-2004


Message 66 of 100 (562639)
05-31-2010 4:18 PM


In 1999, the human population passed six billion. In 1985, it passed five billion. In 1962, it passed three billion. In 1800, it passed one billion. In 1 AD, the world's population, according to the censuses taken by the governments of that time, was only 250 million. At the current human population growth rate, considering wars and famines and all such variables, it would take approximately 5,000 years to get the current population from two original people.

Taken from: www.allaboutcreation.org/how-old-is-the-earth.htm

There are also many other websites that bring up those same figures.


Replies to this message:
 Message 67 by Huntard, posted 06-01-2010 10:32 AM jessie has not yet responded
 Message 68 by Modulous, posted 06-01-2010 1:21 PM jessie has not yet responded
 Message 69 by misha, posted 06-01-2010 3:06 PM jessie has not yet responded

Huntard
Member (Idle past 404 days)
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


Message 67 of 100 (562759)
06-01-2010 10:32 AM
Reply to: Message 66 by jessie
05-31-2010 4:18 PM


jessie writes:

There are also many other websites that bring up those same figures.


And all of them are wrong, since the growth of a population is dependant on far more than the amount of people around. If we allowed for your model to appplied to bacteria, we'd all be drowning in them in a matter of weeks.

Population growth depends on things such as food available, general health, wars being waged, etc.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 66 by jessie, posted 05-31-2010 4:18 PM jessie has not yet responded

  
Modulous
Member (Idle past 213 days)
Posts: 7789
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 68 of 100 (562775)
06-01-2010 1:21 PM
Reply to: Message 66 by jessie
05-31-2010 4:18 PM


DIY populations
In 1999, the human population passed six billion. In 1985, it passed five billion. In 1962, it passed three billion. In 1800, it passed one billion. In 1 AD, the world's population, according to the censuses taken by the governments of that time, was only 250 million. At the current human population growth rate, considering wars and famines and all such variables, it would take approximately 5,000 years to get the current population from two original people.

Let me repeat this bit:

At the current human population growth rate...it would take approximately 5,000 years to get the current population from two original people

It also would result in the silliest world that lies in contradiction to the other numbers you produced (that is, the contention flatly goes against the evidence and is therefore: wrong)

It's perfectly simple: Do the maths. You'll find using a constant human population growth rate in a post-GM world ends up with some of the silliest results you'll ever see if you start with two people.

Here's my prediction: After 500 years you'll have only about 20 people on the whole planet. After 1000 years you'll be lucky to have 100 people. David would be king of the Israelites while the world population was less than 20,000 and during Jesus' lifetime you are likely to see numbers in the region of 2 million people.

The maths is very easy, and if you were remotely interested in the subject you would have already started doing it by the time you finished this sentence.

Constant growth rates = stupid.

Try a more realistic model...but I point out that creationist propaganda sites won't help you develop one. They'll continue to talk crap just like the one you cited did and that you just proved false with 10 minutes spare time and a calculator.

If you want a model that predicts the real world you will need to include fits and starts taking into account actual resources, politics and technology.

Edited by Modulous, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 66 by jessie, posted 05-31-2010 4:18 PM jessie has not yet responded

misha
Member (Idle past 2737 days)
Posts: 69
From: Atlanta
Joined: 02-04-2010


Message 69 of 100 (562782)
06-01-2010 3:06 PM
Reply to: Message 66 by jessie
05-31-2010 4:18 PM


Jessie,

Let's take a look at what your "math" tells us about history.

If you are claiming a basic exponential growth model then the basic formula would be:

y=a*b^x/T

where:
a = your starting population (i'm guessing you propose 8 for post-Flood)
b = the growth rate (lets just say 2 so that we can model this formula after the population doubling, the opposite of a half-life).
x = the time at measurement
T = time it takes to double the population (see explanation for b)

By using this growth model we see that. . .

- the World population at the time of Joseph's slavery would have been 78 people (24 of whom were his brothers, sisters-in-law, father, mother and step-mother not including any sisters, cousins, nieces or nephews.)

- the World population at the time of the Exodus would have been 154 people

As you can see, a constant growth dynamic is inconsistent with your literal interpretation of genesis.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 66 by jessie, posted 05-31-2010 4:18 PM jessie has not yet responded

celestialGyoud
Member (Idle past 10 days)
Posts: 554
From: Roraima Peak
Joined: 02-11-2004


Message 70 of 100 (567295)
06-30-2010 2:41 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by Vacate
04-07-2010 5:05 AM


the real cause of death by old age
-

An electric generator does not produce enough power to keep itself operating, even so the consumption of regular food when youre older will never be enough to restore the initial amount of calcium, proteins and hormones that are released from the brain in order for the production of the gastric juice necessary to digest that same food.

-

Edited by CrazyDiamond7, : update

Edited by CrazyDiamond7, : update


This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by Vacate, posted 04-07-2010 5:05 AM Vacate has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 72 by Phage0070, posted 08-27-2010 12:15 PM celestialGyoud has responded

  
celestialGyoud
Member (Idle past 10 days)
Posts: 554
From: Roraima Peak
Joined: 02-11-2004


Message 71 of 100 (576933)
08-26-2010 2:35 PM


About intragastric acidity
-

All Human hormones and proteins necessary to produce that gastric juice; the precise acidity of the gastric juice is not reached without a Human living substance being wasted by eating what is dead.

And once it becomes the gastric juice then that living Human substance becomes a decomposition substance.

You might read an excerpt of The Thomas Gospel about that,
the part that says, 'when you ate what is dead you were making that into what is living....'

The cow meat or dead flesh takes a living substance to digest,

the more cow meat you have to digest, the more living substance you will need to decompose it
and the more death smelling will be the acidity of that juice
that is the death spoken about in Genesis, in the words 'in the day you eat from it you will be dying.'

quote:

A knowledge of good and evil consequences. The olive tree introduced to man the desire to know the food again and again, of a constant manner and in a continuous sequence.

A form of knowledge that the Human body was not made to retain or resist since the irresistible food can only be known and retained by a brief moment when knowing the food again. Food that is perishable and mortal is that gives a knowledge that does not remain and it is a good thing that it does not endure; it makes to die because it can only be retained and known by the release and decomposition of the living substance of nutrient property that was composed and made to be intrinsically Human.

The beginning of the deceleration of the aging process is not to waste more nutrients and hormones, keeping the medulla oblongata and the brain as new by only eating the compatible fruits from the solid trees, because a row of composed nutrient substance would not need to be set apart and decomposed to produce the precise type of gastric juice that is required to digest a dead flesh or regular food.

The more living substance is decomposing, the more death-smelling will be the acidity of that juice.

-

From the fruits of the solid trees you can freely eat - The term solid tree is used in the translation to make distinction between actual trees --e.g. avocado tree-- and plants that are palm-trees or of soft trunk. Freely Human body was made to remain free from deseases and death of natural causes.

Except one The olive is a fruit, however, it is also oil for food, (usual cooking oil). Equally the taste of the olive oil was not made to be mixed or combined with the fruits of the other solid trees. The olives were made to be oil for routine food.


-

Edited by CrazyDiamond7, : update

Edited by CrazyDiamond7, : update

Edited by CrazyDiamond7, : update

Edited by CrazyDiamond7, : update


  
Phage0070
Inactive Member


Message 72 of 100 (577183)
08-27-2010 12:15 PM
Reply to: Message 70 by celestialGyoud
06-30-2010 2:41 PM


Re: The real cause of death by old age
CrazyDiamond7 emphasis on CRAZY writes:

If it keeps on raining levee is goin to break. If the liquid substance (proteins and hormones) are constantly poured out from the brain, then the entire resistence is going to terminate. The skull that retains the density from the liquid substance intrinsically Human is a cranium strong like ivory. A second Human skull was verified; it was excessively breakable and it fragmented into dust because the liquid substance had been continuously poured out.

General Jack D. Ripper: Mandrake, do you realize that in addition to fluoridating water, why, there are studies underway to fluoridate salt, flour, fruit juices, soup, sugar, milk... ice cream. Ice cream, Mandrake, children's ice cream.

Group Capt. Lionel Mandrake: Lord, Jack.

General Jack D. Ripper: You know when fluoridation first began?

Group Capt. Lionel Mandrake: I... no, no. I don't, Jack.

General Jack D. Ripper: Nineteen hundred and forty-six. Nineteen forty-six, Mandrake. How does that coincide with your post-war Commie conspiracy, huh? It's incredibly obvious, isn't it? A foreign substance is introduced into our precious bodily fluids without the knowledge of the individual. Certainly without any choice. That's the way your hard-core Commie works.

Group Capt. Lionel Mandrake: Uh, Jack, Jack, listen, tell me, tell me, Jack. When did you first... become... well, develop this theory?

General Jack D. Ripper: Well, I, uh... I... I... first became aware of it, Mandrake, during the physical act of love.

Group Capt. Lionel Mandrake: Hmm.

General Jack D. Ripper: Yes, a uh, a profound sense of fatigue... a feeling of emptiness followed. Luckily I... I was able to interpret these feelings correctly. Loss of essence.

Group Capt. Lionel Mandrake: Hmm.

General Jack D. Ripper: I can assure you it has not recurred, Mandrake. Women uh... women sense my power and they seek the life essence. I, uh... I do not avoid women, Mandrake.

Group Capt. Lionel Mandrake: No.

General Jack D. Ripper: But I... I do deny them my essence.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 70 by celestialGyoud, posted 06-30-2010 2:41 PM celestialGyoud has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 73 by Nij, posted 08-28-2010 5:07 AM Phage0070 has not yet responded
 Message 74 by celestialGyoud, posted 08-30-2010 4:09 PM Phage0070 has not yet responded

Nij
Member (Idle past 2998 days)
Posts: 239
From: New Zealand
Joined: 08-20-2010


Message 73 of 100 (577335)
08-28-2010 5:07 AM
Reply to: Message 72 by Phage0070
08-27-2010 12:15 PM


Re: The real cause of death by old age
Lol I haven't yet had the chance to view Dr. Strangelove. It is very high up on my to-see list.
This message is a reply to:
 Message 72 by Phage0070, posted 08-27-2010 12:15 PM Phage0070 has not yet responded

celestialGyoud
Member (Idle past 10 days)
Posts: 554
From: Roraima Peak
Joined: 02-11-2004


Message 74 of 100 (577828)
08-30-2010 4:09 PM
Reply to: Message 72 by Phage0070
08-27-2010 12:15 PM


Re: The real cause of death by old age
-

[qs=Phage0070]

If a instruction says that you will not die as long as you only eat compatible fruits that is not a bad craziness

-

Edited by CrazyDiamond7, : update

Edited by CrazyDiamond7, : update


This message is a reply to:
 Message 72 by Phage0070, posted 08-27-2010 12:15 PM Phage0070 has not yet responded

  
celestialGyoud
Member (Idle past 10 days)
Posts: 554
From: Roraima Peak
Joined: 02-11-2004


Message 75 of 100 (578351)
09-01-2010 3:23 PM
Reply to: Message 63 by Phage0070
05-27-2010 10:36 PM


ascertained truth of the facts
-

The truth that is known and not believed, is the fact that was proved by experience; and it is the fact that all things the Humans have done to the place called Earth in just one sequence of 14 thousand years, they would have done the same thing anyway.

Edited by CrazyDiamond7, : update


This message is a reply to:
 Message 63 by Phage0070, posted 05-27-2010 10:36 PM Phage0070 has not yet responded

  
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