'Some still living' disproves literal truth of the bible

There are so many instances in scripture of failed prophecy. Only through lying and/or delusion can one make them work.A crystal clear on is Matthew 16. It clearly speaks of Jesus returning during his disciples lifetime.Matthew 24 is even more specific. I tried with Jay to show this, but he refused to actually engage in a mature debate.Perhaps you would like to have a civil discussion on this?Finally, after much prodding, Jay stated that Matthew 24 has the disciples asking Jesus for sign that he shall return.Jay then admitted that the signs were for those in the time line as well as those today (you or those in the future).Do you agree with this assessment?

You didnt address anything. You asked about failed prophecy, yet ignored Matthew 24.Are we in agreement that in Matthew 24 that his disciples ask when Jesus will return and Jesus gives a list of signs that will precede his return?Are we in agreement that the end times are to occur once?Are we in agreement that Matthew 25 refers to the return of Jesus?Are we in agreement that Revelation 22 refers to Jesus and his return?

"John",I asked a few questions....and you ignored each and every one of them.You made a claim that the Bible does not have false prophecies. I'm trying to establish a friendly debate to show that scripture does have a few problems concerning prophecies, especially in regards to the end times.But we will not make any progress if you continue to ignore questions when asked. Jay also had a nasty "habit" of doing so.I'm not sure if this is your normal routine when debating and do not realize you are doing so or you're just deliberately avoiding these issues.If you really wish to continue can you please address the questions I asked?Thanks.

No. You avoid the questions asked and answer questions you THINK should be answered.These are my qustions. They're "yes" or "no" answers.Once I have your viewpoint, we can go from there.Are we in agreement that in Matthew 24 that his disciples ask when Jesus will return and Jesus gives a list of signs that will precede his return?Are we in agreement that the end times are to occur once?Are we in agreement that Matthew 25 refers to the return of Jesus?Are we in agreement that Revelation 22 refers to Jesus and his return?

So let me understand this.You claim the Bible does not have any false prophecies.I make the claim that it does.But you wont engage in any type of debate unless I am a Christian?Wow.

The reason you and Jay refused to discuss Matthew 24 is quite obvious.Your faith is that weak.You both realize what Matthew 24 actually states. You would rather stick your head in the sand, ignoring the obvious problem.A shame what religion does.

Hi ICANT, A few questions I would like answered if you can.Jesus gives a long list of signs. What is the purpose of those signs?What is the abomination that causes desolation?Is the "end time" (the return of Jesus) a one time event?Thanks.Edited by hERICtic, : No reason given.

See...thats where you are wrong. Apparently we have two different ways of looking at the Bible.You blindly accept on faith.
I base my beleifs upon evidence.I read the Bible and based upon what I read I came to a conclusion.If you are so willing to lead me to Christ, then preaching does not work. Evidence does.I am trying to engage in a debate with you based upon what scripture states and what evidence is does or does not show.You lack the evidence, so you refuse to debate.Perhaps you should sit back and learn how ICANT handles himself.You could learn a few things.

hERICtic writes:
Jesus gives a long list of signs. What is the purpose of those signs? You didnt answer the question. You threw out a ton of info, but actually avoided the question. You gave what the signs are, but not what their purpose is.What is the purpose of the signs? There is one answer.To let his disciples know when when the end times are to occur and when Jesus is returning.Now, do you agree or disagree?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------I then asked what the adomination that causes desolation?You answered: Luke proceeds to describe the desolation: Luke 21: When you see Jerusalem being surrounded by armies, you will know that its desolation is near.This occured in 70ad. Do you agree?I asked if the end times (the return of Jesus) is a one time event?You stated: They are related. The end times are to occur, followed by the return of Jesus. So you're talking semantics here.But let me rephrase. Are the end times a one time event? Yes, it may take a certain amount of time, but is it an event that will occur one time? After this event, will Jesus return?Also, can you please show me where Jesus tells his disciples that they are his bride/church prior to Matthew 24.Thanks.Edited by hERICtic, : No reason given.

Hello again..... But that doesnt exactly address my question. Warning them of what? Avoid what problems? What loss of rewards?The signs were given for two reasons. In verse 3 his disciples ask: "Tell us," they said, "when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?"1) The return of Jesus.
2) The end of the age.The end of the age refers to the apocalypse so to speak, which shall preceed the return of Jesus.How can Luke refer to the desolation in 70ad, when you claim Matthew didnt? Its the same speech.Are you suggestion one of the authors quoted incorrectly or made an error? We are not talking about the end of TIME, we are talking about the end of the age. The end times (I believe that term is not in scripture, I could be wrong though) are the events of chaos which occur before the return of Jesus.You are refering to the time AFTER Jesus arrives. I agree. So how would his disciples know then they are his bride if he never called them that?I ask bc you said the signs were for his church? Jesus is speaking DIRECTLY to his disciples and states "you".Obviously, his disciples are then included in the speech. Hey, as long as you stay on topic.....keep typing away! I recently had a debate with someone else and he was quite long winded, bounced around, went off on tangents and avoided questions!When Jesus returns, will it be with angels? Will he judge mankind? They may not know the exact hour or day, but a time frame can be established.

Yes, the specifics are only known by the father. But a general outline is given as to when. Nowhere in the entire NT does it state the end times are in the far future. Every single instance refers to near event. Quite a few times its "near", "nearby" "at the door", "soon" etc... There are quite a few specific passages where those being addressed are directly told they would be witness to his return.Who is Jesus speaking to in chapter 23? Those in front of him or you?Who is Jesus speaking to in chapter 24? Is it his disciples?

Spoken like a true dishonest Christian!

Matthew 16: 27For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.28Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.This was not fulfilled in Matthew 17. Where are the angels in Matthew 17? Rewarding every man refers to the "end". When did this occur in Matthew 17? Of those standing there, who died?

But you're ignoring the context.Matthew 24 has Jesus speaking to his disciples, while stating quite a few times "you" (refering back to his disciples) then adds "this generation". It can only mean that time period.

Hello again. It cannot refer to the transfirguration. No one died as per Matthew 16, nor did the angels reward mankind. From what I can gather above, it seems like a lot of twisting and really doesnt cover all the criteria of chapter 16.Lets take a look again. This time, lets back up a lil.21From that time on Jesus began to explain to his disciples that he must go to Jerusalem and suffer many things at the hands of the elders, chief priests and teachers of the law, and that he must be killed and on the third day be raised to life.
22Peter took him aside and began to rebuke him. "Never, Lord!" he said. "This shall never happen to you!"Jesus is talking about his death. Peter then joins in and cries out that this event is not going to occur.24Then Jesus said to his disciples, "If anyone would come after me, he must deny himself and take up his cross and follow me. 25For whoever wants to save his life[h] will lose it, but whoever loses his life for me will find it. 26What good will it be for a man if he gains the whole world, yet forfeits his soul? Or what can a man give in exchange for his soul?Jesus is not talking about dying and saving their soul. This can only occur after the death of Jesus. So again, Jesus is talking about events after his death.So logically, after his death....27For the Son of Man is going to come in his Father's glory with his angels, and then he will reward each person according to what he has done. 28I tell you the truth, some who are standing here will not taste death before they see the Son of Man coming in his kingdom."It makes 100% perfect sense to conclude that after his death, he is going to come with gods angles (which Revelation attests to) and reward each person (saving their souls) which again Revelation attests to, as well as his entire message- that he must die in order to save mankind.Anyway, hERICtic, I think that "you" is addressed to the reader. Check out verse 15. I believe Jesus was fully capable of knowing who his audience was/would be. Bear in mind that He is speaking prophetically, which means we have to be very, very careful trying to pinpoint precisely whom/what He refers to in every case. The author is recounting a story. In this story his disciples go to him.3As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. "Tell us," they said, "when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?"They ask when the end times are. So the scene is Jesus is asked a question directly as addresses his disciples.4Jesus answered: "Watch out that no one deceives you.So you're saying, Jesus turned away from his disciples, looked into the camera and spoke those words?No. He is addressing his disciples, those standing in front of him. You may argue, which will create other problems, that the "you" means his disciples and those in the future...but you cannot honestly suggest that as he is speaking to his disciples, answering their question and responds with "you" that he is bypassing them and going directly to the future.Now, Matthew 25 is still part of the story from chapter 24, and Jesus says:31"When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory. 32All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.Does this refer to the Pentacaust? The Transfiguration? Or is this the end times-Jesus coming in his glory, with his angels, nations gathered before him, seperating those who are saved and unsaved?As for how to quote, when you hit reply the screen changes so you can respond. Look to your left. Click on "help" next to the dbCodes. That should help you do all sorts of nifty thing!