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Author Topic:   Are You an Authoritarian?
crashfrog
Inactive Member


Message 76 of 181 (567972)
07-03-2010 4:24 PM
Reply to: Message 75 by AZPaul3
07-02-2010 4:10 AM


Do you believe people are not aware of their differences in view point to the extent they will alway miss label themselves?

"Always"? I dunno. But Americans are sufficiently un-self-aware politically, for instance, that a substantial number of people on Social Security disability, welfare, and Medicare will show up at Tea Parties and complain about "big government moochers." The Republican Party can oppose, lockstep, a trillon-dollar deficit reduction package in both houses of Congress and still call themselves a party of fiscal sanity.

Or do "liberals" exhibit the same patterns in reverse?

Yeah, I think probably a large number of liberals consider themselves liberal, even though they oppose abortion, want smaller taxes on businesses and the rich, and believe in aggressive, interventionist foreign policy.

Do you believe people are not aware of their differences in view point to the extent they will alway miss label themselves?

Yes, I think hardly any Americans at all, actually, follow politics to the extent that they know what the commonly-used terms refer to. Americans change religions more than they change political parties. Only one in five self-reported "conservatives" actually hold consistent conservative positions. Americans in general are saddled with an unfortunate ignorance about what words mean - fewer than one third of Americans can correctly identify DNA as the molecule of heredity, and only a microscopic fraction actually know what a molecule is. One in five American adults believe that the Sun revolves around the Earth.

Do I think that Americans in general don't understand what positions are liberal and which are conservative? Yes, absolutely. I don't see how that can be denied. Hardly any conservatives are actually conservative, and almost every "liberal" in America is a center-right moderate. But liberal positions - the social safety net, community investment and development, public-option health care, progressive taxation, strong protections for workers - are supported by resounding majorities of Americans, and always have been. Conservative positions have relatively little popularity in Real America. Hence the curious paradox of conservative dream girl Sarah Palin having actually been one of Alaska's most liberal governors. Hence conservative Mitt Romney being the first governor to create universal health care in any American state.


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RAZD
Member
Posts: 19869
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 5.5


Message 77 of 181 (567982)
07-03-2010 6:26 PM
Reply to: Message 71 by DBlevins
07-01-2010 10:16 PM


the political box 2D spectrum is a better picture
Hi DBlevins,

I wish I could remember the url of the 4-square test which was a very similar type of test. It was quite long but measured 4 different attributes and then plotted you on a grid along with ghandi, hitler, clinton, etc.

quote:

The usual understanding of anarchism as a left wing ideology does not take into account the neo-liberal "anarchism" championed by the likes of Ayn Rand, Milton Friedman and America's Libertarian Party, which couples social Darwinian right-wing economics with liberal positions on most social issues. Often their libertarian impulses stop short of opposition to strong law and order positions, and are more economic in substance (ie no taxes) so they are not as extremely libertarian as they are extremely right wing. On the other hand, the classical libertarian collectivism of anarcho-syndicalism ( libertarian socialism) belongs in the bottom left hand corner.

In our home page we demolished the myth that authoritarianism is necessarily "right wing", with the examples of Robert Mugabe, Pol Pot and Stalin. Similarly Hitler, on an economic scale, was not an extreme right-winger. His economic policies were broadly Keynesian, and to the left of some of today's Labour parties. If you could get Hitler and Stalin to sit down together and avoid economics, the two diehard authoritarians would find plenty of common ground.


Wonder where the basic "tea party" platform sits ...

Ahh, found the url for the grid test. I actually liked it better. Politicalcompass.org

I see they have updated the questions to keep them current. My score is still about the same however

quote:
Your political compass
Economic Left/Right: -7.62
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -7.03

That's below and to the left of Ghandi, where I was before.

Enjoy.

Edited by RAZD, : updated signature with extra spaces removed


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


• • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •

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Replies to this message:
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nwr
Member
Posts: 5585
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005


Message 78 of 181 (567987)
07-03-2010 6:49 PM
Reply to: Message 77 by RAZD
07-03-2010 6:26 PM


Re: the political box 2D spectrum is a better picture
RAZD writes:
Wonder where the basic "tea party" platform sits ...

I think it would show up on the Political Compass chart as a curve, probably something very similar to the Laffer Curve (Martin Gardner version).
This message is a reply to:
 Message 77 by RAZD, posted 07-03-2010 6:26 PM RAZD has acknowledged this reply

  
Coyote
Member (Idle past 270 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 79 of 181 (567990)
07-03-2010 7:01 PM
Reply to: Message 77 by RAZD
07-03-2010 6:26 PM


Re: the political box 2D spectrum is a better picture
Here is another set of axes for your consideration, based on rationalism vs. statism:

Source, and description of the axes: The Pournelle political axes


Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
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cavediver
Member (Idle past 1807 days)
Posts: 4129
From: UK
Joined: 06-16-2005


Message 80 of 181 (568041)
07-04-2010 4:33 AM
Reply to: Message 77 by RAZD
07-03-2010 6:26 PM


Re: the political box 2D spectrum is a better picture
Great link guys, thanks. But I'm very confused None of my answers surprised me - I'm fairly aware of how I feel about the majority of the subject matter. But my position on the scale is a shock. It's certainly not how I would describe myself in simple left-right terminology, especially when compared to certain UK politicians.

quote:
Your political compass
Economic Left/Right: -1.75
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.33

Edited by cavediver, : No reason given.


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cavediver
Member (Idle past 1807 days)
Posts: 4129
From: UK
Joined: 06-16-2005


Message 81 of 181 (568042)
07-04-2010 4:49 AM
Reply to: Message 79 by Coyote
07-03-2010 7:01 PM


Re: the political box 2D spectrum is a better picture
Hey Coyote, I've been meaning to talk to you about this for a while. You're the one example that comes to mind here at EvC of an educated intelligent staunch member of "the right" (and if any of that is wrong, please excuse it and correct me.)

To me as a Brit, irrespective of where Republicans are placed on a political spectrum, they have become synonomous with "idiot", with this image promoted through Bush, Coulter, and the usual Fox News brigade. "The left" appear as the opposite: the educated and intelligent, promoted through the thinking politicians such as Gore and Obama to some extent, and shown off with the wit and satire of The Daily Show, The Colbert Report, etc.

I would love to know how you feel about this portrayel, but more importantly, I would be fascinated to see where you sit politically on the Political Compass map... could you run through the questionaire? Obviously, I fully understand and accept if you have no particular desire to do this. Thanks.


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Coyote
Member (Idle past 270 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 82 of 181 (568110)
07-04-2010 11:01 AM
Reply to: Message 81 by cavediver
07-04-2010 4:49 AM


Re: the political box 2D spectrum is a better picture
This is what I come up with:

Edited by Coyote, : No reason given.


Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
This message is a reply to:
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cavediver
Member (Idle past 1807 days)
Posts: 4129
From: UK
Joined: 06-16-2005


Message 83 of 181 (568123)
07-04-2010 11:44 AM
Reply to: Message 82 by Coyote
07-04-2010 11:01 AM


Re: the political box 2D spectrum is a better picture
Thanks, and very interesting. Given our proximity, does that make me an honoury Republican!!
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jar
Member
Posts: 30981
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 4.8


Message 84 of 181 (568130)
07-04-2010 12:09 PM
Reply to: Message 83 by cavediver
07-04-2010 11:44 AM


Re: the political box 2D spectrum is a better picture
There was a discussion over at Dream Catcher on the changes in the GOP over time that might interest you.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
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Huntard
Member (Idle past 459 days)
Posts: 2870
From: Limburg, The Netherlands
Joined: 09-02-2008


Message 85 of 181 (568161)
07-04-2010 5:12 PM
Reply to: Message 82 by Coyote
07-04-2010 11:01 AM


Re: the political box 2D spectrum is a better picture
Coyote writes:

This is what I come up with:


Interesting. This is mine:

Although I did find some question " unanswerable", because my view was a bit more nuanced.


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Coyote
Member (Idle past 270 days)
Posts: 6117
Joined: 01-12-2008


Message 86 of 181 (568172)
07-04-2010 5:53 PM
Reply to: Message 85 by Huntard
07-04-2010 5:12 PM


Re: the political box 2D spectrum is a better picture
Great minds, etc....

I too found some questions worded in such a way as to have no really good answer.


Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.
This message is a reply to:
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bluescat48
Member (Idle past 2354 days)
Posts: 2347
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2007


Message 87 of 181 (568193)
07-04-2010 8:20 PM
Reply to: Message 77 by RAZD
07-03-2010 6:26 PM


Re: the political box 2D spectrum is a better picture
This is mine:

Edited by bluescat48, : wrong url

Edited by bluescat48, : same


There is no better love between 2 people than mutual respect for each other WT Young, 2002

Who gave anyone the authority to call me an authority on anything. WT Young, 1969

Since Evolution is only ~90% correct it should be thrown out and replaced by Creation which has even a lower % of correctness. W T Young, 2008


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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RAZD
Member
Posts: 19869
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 5.5


Message 88 of 181 (568199)
07-04-2010 9:23 PM
Reply to: Message 87 by bluescat48
07-04-2010 8:20 PM


Compiled political box 2D spectrum picture ... so far
Hi bluescat48, and others that have posted their scores

This is what I get for a compiled result:

So far it looks like Cassiopeia ...
http://chandra.harvard.edu/...constellations/cassiopeia.html

It will be interesting to see the spectrum of results from other members of the debate.

Enjoy.

Edited by RAZD, : subtitle


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel American Zen Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


• • • Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click) • • •

This message is a reply to:
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Theodoric
Member
Posts: 6264
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 89 of 181 (568202)
07-04-2010 9:47 PM
Reply to: Message 88 by RAZD
07-04-2010 9:23 PM


My political box
Economic Left/Right: -7.50
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.54


This message is a reply to:
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jar
Member
Posts: 30981
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 4.8


Message 90 of 181 (568204)
07-04-2010 9:49 PM


The Political Compass
Economic Left/Right: -5.50
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.03

Edited by jar, : No reason given.


Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!
  
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