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Author Topic:   Reverse realm and contradictions of bible translation
JRTjr
Member (Idle past 2564 days)
Posts: 178
From: Houston, Texas, USA
Joined: 07-19-2004


Message 102 of 118 (566448)
06-24-2010 5:32 PM
Reply to: Message 100 by celestialGyoud
05-14-2010 3:36 PM


what was owed to whom?
Dear CrazyDiamond7,

Great to hear from you again.

CrazyDiamond7 writes:

ÁLEF – If I AM died for all then all died. -- It is I AM who buys the entire person and it has nothing to do with paying a price for one's debts.

To “buy” something is to inherently assume there is a price to be prayed for whatever is being bought.

If the Great ‘I Am’ did not ‘pay’ the ‘price’ for our ‘debts’ than what was owed to whom?

According to the Bible man incurs a debt to God (The Great ‘I Am’) when he/she commits ‘sin’ (rebellion against the Creators perfect and Divine Will for their lives).

The cost of ‘Sin’ is death1. This is a debt owed to God by man for their sin. This “Law of sin and death”2 has existed since the beginning; when God told Adam and Eve not to eat of the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil3.

God does not change, nor does his view of ‘sin’; therefore the price of ‘sin’ will always be required to be paid.

Again, according to the Bible, Jesus freely (of His own will and volition {No one forced Him}) paid that price {i.e. the cost of our sin} in our place at the cross.

The ‘cost’ of my rebellion against the Great Creator is eternal separation from Him {Death}; Jesus took upon Himself the penalty of my rebellion {He took my place} and died so that I could be reconciled to The ‘Great I Am’.

The Item was ‘Sin’ {rebellion against a Holy God}
The ‘Price” was eternal separation from the Eternal God eternally {Death}

God’s Justice could allow no less punishment.

Jesus ‘paid’ that ‘price’ for my ‘sin’. {Romans 6: 23}

_________________________________________________________________________________________

1. Romans 6: 23 “ For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. ” (The Holy Bible: New Revised Standard Version. Nashville: Thomas Nelson Publishers, 1989, S.)
2. Romans 8: 2 “ For the law of the Spirita of life in Christ Jesus has set you b free from the law of sin and of death.” (The Holy Bible: New Revised Standard Version. Nashville: Thomas Nelson Publishers, 1989, S.)
3. Genesis 2: 17

------------------------------------------------
a Or spirit
b Here the Greek word you is singular number; other ancient authorities read me or us


This message is a reply to:
 Message 100 by celestialGyoud, posted 05-14-2010 3:36 PM celestialGyoud has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 103 by celestialGyoud, posted 06-25-2010 4:12 PM JRTjr has responded

    
JRTjr
Member (Idle past 2564 days)
Posts: 178
From: Houston, Texas, USA
Joined: 07-19-2004


Message 104 of 118 (568460)
07-06-2010 12:21 AM
Reply to: Message 103 by celestialGyoud
06-25-2010 4:12 PM


‘Arbitrary forgiveness’ or ‘substitutionary forgiveness’?
Dear CrazyDiamond7,

Thank you for your participation.

JRTjr writes:

God does not change, nor does his view of ‘sin’; therefore the price of ‘sin’ will always be required to be paid.”

CrazyDiamond7 writes:

Is that not the same as saying that the god will not forgive ?

Yes; and No.

Yes, the Great I Am will not arbitrarily forgive ‘sin’ because He is Absolutely Just; His Absolute Justice can not allow ‘sin’ to go unpunished.

23For the wages which sin pays is death...(Romans 6: 23a Amplified Bible)

22[In fact] under the Law almost everything is purified by means of blood, and without the shedding of blood there is neither release from sin and its guilt nor the remission of the due and merited punishment for sins .( Hebrews 9:22 (Amplified Bible)) {Emphases added}

However; Jesus’ sacrifice on the cross means that He pain my debt in my place.

23…but the [bountiful] free gift of God is eternal life through (in union with) Jesus Christ our Lord.(Romans 6: 23b Amplified Bible)

JRTjr writes:

The ‘cost’ of my rebellion against the Great Creator is eternal separation from Him {Death}…

CrazyDiamond7 writes:

Unless you are forgiven.

Are you saying that the Great Creator of the universes will arbitrarily forgive ‘sin’ with out requiring anything; that all we have to do is say ‘I’m sorry’ and that’s it; your ‘sin’ will become forgiven?

You’ve said yourself:

CrazyDiamond7 writes:

the only repose for whomever did wrong, and the only solution for the sins, is to die in I AM in the time that is called now by delivering his life to I AM, rather than continuing to die in his sins.

So, you seam to agree with Romans 6: 23!?

So, which do you believe? Does the Great Creator arbitrarily forgive ‘sin’? Or; Dos His Justice require that the penalty for ‘sin’ be paid in full?

‘Arbitrary forgiveness’ or ‘substitutionary forgiveness’?

Again I ask: “If there was no price to be paid for sin; then why an “OFFERING TO PUT AN END TO ALL SINS.”?”

Looking forward to hearing from you again,
JRTjr


This message is a reply to:
 Message 103 by celestialGyoud, posted 06-25-2010 4:12 PM celestialGyoud has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 105 by celestialGyoud, posted 07-07-2010 5:08 PM JRTjr has not yet responded

    
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