Genesis 1 vs. Genesis 2

There a few things in your post that I have problems with. For example: While I agree that many Christians use such passages to defend their clam of biblical inerrancy, I believe they are simply quotemining and then pretending that what is taken out of context supports their fantasy.Let's begin with the classic 2 Timmy quote. While it is questionable who actually wrote 2 Timmy, is is still likely fairly early, likely still written during the first 100 years CE.At that time there were still few Judaic Canons, basically only the first five books, the Torah. The Gospels had not yet been written and there were NO Christian Canons.When the author of 2 Timmy mentions scripture he is certainly not talking about "The Bible".The second quotemine you mention is again referring to specific texts, to the Laws, not to the Bible. In that example later books that eventually were included in the various canons contradict it.But neither of those has anything to do with Genesis 1 or Genesis 2&3.So, is there any indication that the editors, redactors and committees that put together the different and disparate Bibles considered them as fable or myth and recognized that they were not factual?IMHO, the answer is "Most certainly."The evidence is that both Genesis 1 as well as Genesis 2&3 were canonized and even the chronological order of the stories changed placing the younger, newer Genesis 1 story before the much older Genesis 2&3 tale.As you point out in the OP, the two tales are mutually exclusive. The orders of creation are different, the methods are different, even the Gods described in the two tales are entirely different.The people that edited the sacred books, that complied the stories, that decided on the different canons were not stupid. They could see the contradictions as easily as you did.So the question should be "Why did those committees, those editors, those redactors include both tales with all the contradictions intact?"IMHO there are valid explanations.First, the tales show a snapshot of how the peoples viewed what a God should be at that time. In the older tale the god is very human, hands on, a tinkerer, unsure, afraid but also close, personal, caring, concerned. In the younger tale the god is aloof, overarching, totally competent, creating only by and act of will but also separate, not interacting with what is created.The two tales also served different purposes. Genesis 1 is an actual creation myth while Genesis 2&3 were a "Just so Story" meant to explain why the world was as it was, why we feared snakes, why we had to work to grow food instead of just browsing like the other animals, why childbirth seemed more painful for women than the other animals, why women should be subservient to man.

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Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

So what?Even if Jesus happened to think they were factual, that does not imply that the folk that wrote the stories thought they were factual or that they were factual.

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Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

Yes, let's deal with this nonsense first.The fact that a fable mentions something that might be fact tells us nothing about the honesty, factuality or reality of other parts of the fable.Wheat may well have been first domesticated in Turkey but guess what, wheat is not mentioned in the Garden of Eden fable.Second, there is nothing in Genesis 2 to suggest that it is placed around the Younger Dryas and evidence so far for the earliest domestication of wheat place it about 1000 years later than the Younger Dryas.The common Fig (also not mentioned in the Genesis Garden of Eden fable) is common throughout the region from Southeast Asia to the Mediterranean.Finally, the fact that real places are mentioned adds no credibility at all to the fantasy parts like talking serpents.There is one other thing you should consider. At the locations you mention, Turkey and the Fertile Crescent, the Younger Dryas most likely would have had little or no noticeable effect. It is almost entirely something seen at higher latitudes and except for the likely drought in the area of the Fertile Crescent which might have lead to the first examples of irrigation and canals, irrelevant. Irrigation and canals though ARE an indication of a fairly large population as well as some form of hierarchy and governance, a direct refutation of the Garden of Eden story.Edited by jar, : appalin spallin

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Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

No, just ICANT. He has attribution issues.

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Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

Those are not assumptions, the first and third are conclusions based on the evidence. The second is simply silly since there is no connection between the two separate myths.

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Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

Nonsense.If I write "in the Opening Post Hepteract said..." it is not Hepteract narrating.The narrator is the one recounting the fable.

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Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

I beg your pardon?Here is the content you are replying to. The narrator of something is the person telling the story. Genesis 1 was not written in the first person. God is not the narrator. It does not say "In the beginning I created the heaven and the earth..."Here is Genesis 1.

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Genesis 1

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1In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.

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2And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

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3And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

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4And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

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5And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

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6And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.

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7And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.

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8And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.

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9And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.

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10And God called the dry land Earth; and the gathering together of the waters called he Seas: and God saw that it was good.

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11And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so.

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12And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

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13And the evening and the morning were the third day.

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14And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:

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15And let them be for lights in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth: and it was so.

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16And God made two great lights; the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night: he made the stars also.

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17And God set them in the firmament of the heaven to give light upon the earth,

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18And to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness: and God saw that it was good.

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19And the evening and the morning were the fourth day.

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20And God said, Let the waters bring forth abundantly the moving creature that hath life, and fowl that may fly above the earth in the open firmament of heaven.

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21And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

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22And God blessed them, saying, Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the waters in the seas, and let fowl multiply in the earth.

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23And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.

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24And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.

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25And God made the beast of the earth after his kind, and cattle after their kind, and every thing that creepeth upon the earth after his kind: and God saw that it was good.

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26And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

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27So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.

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28And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.

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29And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.

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30And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.

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31And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

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Note that it is not written as though God were the narrator.This really is basic reading comprehension stuff.God is NOT the narrator.Edited by jar, : fix sub-title

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Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

Sure there is chronology in both. It is just that the two stories are mutually exclusive, they contradict each other.They are two different stories written by two different cultures living in two different eras. They are NOT one story. In fact the evidence suggests that Genesis 2&3 is by far the older story, written hundreds if not thousands of years before Genesis 1.

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Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

Nothing in Genesis 2 refers to Genesis 1.

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Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

The creation in Genesis 2 didn't happen 6,000+ years ago either.

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Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

Nothing in Genesis 2 refers to Genesis 1. They are two different myths written by two different cultures at two different periods in time. Further, the myth found in Genesis 2&3 was written hundreds of years if not thousands of years before the fable written in Genesis 1.There were no chapters in the Hebrew scrolls, or verses. What we see as chapters or verses is the editing and redacting of much later folk.There is no continuity or relation between the myths.In addition, they are all factually wrong.

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Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

Of course. The earth could not be created before the sun.Plants were not created before sea life.Seed bearing plants were not the first plants.That is sufficient to prove that Genesis 1 is not factual.Man was not created before plants and animals.That is enough to prove that Genesis 2 is not factual.Further, even if Genesis 2.4 was actually part of Genesis 2, it is NOT referring to Genesis 1 which had not even been written at the time.I'm sorry but your argument is as empty as the God you try to market.

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Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

I'm sorry but you are just playing silly word games and that is not what the story says. Genesis 1 is the first book of the Torah and it says that the sun was created on day four not on the first day. You just seem to love taking crap out of context.The witness that supports my assertions is called physics and the earth. This earth was created after the sun and as part of the process of creating this solar system. It is all just the result of physics.We can see the progression of life forms over time. The first seed bearing plants appear about 150-200 million years ago. There was lots of plant life before then.Sea live existed before land life.We can check the validity of the mythology claims made in Genesis 1 and Genesis 2 against the record that really exists, the earth we live on and the answer is, the myths are factually wrong.

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Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

I'm sorry. I don't play word games.Genesis 1 says the Sun was created on day four.Genesis 1 says the Earth was created on day 1.That is impossible.Genesis 1 says nothing about the sun appearing on day four.Genesis 1 is simply incorrect.Genesis 1 says that grasses and seed bearing plants were the first plants.Genesis 1 is simply incorrect.Genesis 1 says that grasses and sed bearing plants were created before the sun.Genesis 1 is simply incorrect.Edited by jar, : hit key too soon.

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Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

The text of Genesis 1 and Genesis 2&3 is readily available for folk to read.Look at the two different gods found in the fables.The god in the much older story found in Genesis 2&3 is very human, very hands on making mud figures, unsure, not knowing which critter would make a helpmeet for Adam, not quite honest, telling Adam that the day he eats from the Tree of Knowledge he will die when in fact Adam lives on for many years afterward, fearful and expelling Adam and Eve because he fears they might become immortal.That is a very primitive god, one very much like the older mythologies of the Vedas, Greeks, Sumer and Elam.The god described in Gen 1 though is entirely different, overarching, creating by will alone, supremely confident and competent, but apart, separate from what is created.Two different gods as seen by two different peoples living in two different eras and cultures. Actually, creation is just a subplot in both stories and is really not very important. That is likely why the editors and redactors included two different and mutually exclusive accounts and did not try to merge the stories together like they did with the different versions of the flood myth.Genesis 1 introduces the overarching god, Gen 2&3 present the personal god. Genesis 1 sets up the week and the sabbath. Gen 2&3 are a "Just So" story that explains why humans must farm and not just live off the land like their ancestors did, why we fear snakes, why childbirth for humans seems more painful, why we wear clothes and have social morality. Testimony does not trump physical evidence. I'm sorry but you are simply wrong there. Please at least stop and think for a moment. Of course gravity is strong enough to hold things together. You do not drift off into space. It is gravity that holds you on the surface of this planet.We use gravity often. When we sent people to the moon it was gravity that caused the vessel to circle the moon and gravity that held the astronauts on the surface and gravity that required they use their rocket engine to slow their descent. LOLIt is not a matter of personal incredulity, it is a conclusion based on physics and observation.Need has nothing to do with whether or not something exists.BUT, it is another great example (one of many) of where the Genesis 1 fable is factually wrong.

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11 Then God said, "Let the land produce vegetation: seed-bearing plants and trees on the land that bear fruit with seed in it, according to their various kinds." And it was so. 12 The land produced vegetation: plants bearing seed according to their kinds and trees bearing fruit with seed in it according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good. 13 And there was evening, and there was morningthe third day.

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First, seed bearing fruits were NOT the first plant life, not by millions and millions and millions of years. Furthermore, seed bearing plants do need the sun to exist, and it doesn't get created until the next day.The stories are just fables, myths, and creation is not even that important a part of the myths.Edited by jar, : even my spell checker is applin

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Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!