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Author Topic:   There you Go,YECs...biblical "evidence" of "flat earth beliefs"
Peter
Member (Idle past 1478 days)
Posts: 2161
From: Cambridgeshire, UK.
Joined: 02-05-2002


Message 5 of 243 (5664)
02-27-2002 7:11 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by LudvanB
02-26-2002 2:37 PM


quote:
Originally posted by LudvanB:
http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?passage=dan+4:10-11
http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?passage=mat+4:8
http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?passage=1+chr+16:30
http://bible.gospelcom.net/bible?passage=psa+93:1
Those passages clearly demonstrate that the writers thereof firmly believed that the earth was flat and stationary.

I'm sorry (especially as an evolutionist), but I'm not convinced
that any of those point to flat earth or static earth beliefs.
Which, considering flat earth beliefs arose during the dark ages,
and prior to this (i.e. during the time the bible was written) it
was well-known that the earth was round, is not suprising.
The world not being moved seems more of a metaphor for
'It exists, live with it!'

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by LudvanB, posted 02-26-2002 2:37 PM LudvanB has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 10 by LudvanB, posted 02-27-2002 9:46 AM Peter has replied

  
Peter
Member (Idle past 1478 days)
Posts: 2161
From: Cambridgeshire, UK.
Joined: 02-05-2002


Message 14 of 243 (5694)
02-27-2002 11:10 AM
Reply to: Message 10 by LudvanB
02-27-2002 9:46 AM


quote:
Originally posted by LudvanB:

Actually,the text of the Bible were writen well before the dark ages,whom' occured between the 12th and 16th century. Most of the ancient textament was writen 300 BC and the new testament was writen a mere few century after the death of christ. The many parts of the Bible were ASSEMBLED in the middle ages and TRANSLATED from the hebrew and greek to latin and then english...their content however was not altered,at least according to the church.

I think you mis-read me ....
I said::
Flat earth was a dark ages concept
PRIOR to this [the dark ages] (during the time the bible was written)
By the above I meant that the Bible was written prior to the
dark ages.
Ancient cultures knew that the earth was round, some of them even
calculated its circumference (and got it within a few yards). There
are even ancient depictions of a helio-centric solar system.
quote:
Originally posted by LudvanB:

But to adress your points,the first two passages mentionned refer to first an object tall enough that it can be seen by the whole world and second,to a vantage point high enough to allow one to look onto the whole world. This illustrates not only their belief that the earth was a flat circle but that the world was actually quite small,since they wrote that there could be a place where you could have a line of sight onto all areas of the world.

The first clearly states it is describing a vision.
The second one says ONLY that the devil took Jesus to a high mountain
and showed him all the kingdoms of the earth. It doesn't say they
were within line of sight. The new testament was written at a time
when the world was known to be too big to see all of at once (I
believe it was written in the 1st Century CE any how
)
quote:
Originally posted by LudvanB:

The second two passages i agree dont refer to a flat world but rather an UNMOVING one,which is quite untrue,since the planet is hurtling around the sun at a whopping 29,8 km/second. So not only is it moving...its moving extremely fast. As for your metaphor comment,i always have problems with that position. The Bible is clearly an either/or proposition...either the entire thing is a work of literal truth,or the entire thing is a book of metaphore. If we say that unmoving world is a metaphore for the world exists,then why couldn't we say created in 6 days is a metaphore for the world rose to what it is today in 6 ages? Because there is no clear indication which part is to be taken literaly and which part is to be taken metaphoricaly,then this is all subject to personal interpretation,which makes it irrevocably flawed as a message from our God to us...

The quote for the second two is the same, and since one of them
is from psalms (i.e. poetry) I think metaphor is acceptable.
I am an EVOLUTIONIST and an atheist.
I do not believe that the Bible should be taken literally.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by LudvanB, posted 02-27-2002 9:46 AM LudvanB has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 15 by LudvanB, posted 02-27-2002 11:57 AM Peter has not replied

  
Peter
Member (Idle past 1478 days)
Posts: 2161
From: Cambridgeshire, UK.
Joined: 02-05-2002


Message 27 of 243 (5789)
02-28-2002 9:29 AM
Reply to: Message 16 by Mister Pamboli
02-27-2002 12:00 PM


quote:
Originally posted by Mister Pamboli:
I thought this thread was a joke at first. Apparently not! Oh well, here goes...
quote:
Originally posted by LudvanB:Actually,the text of the Bible were writen well before the dark ages,whom' occured between the 12th and 16th century.
I think you'll find the 12th to 16th century comprise what historians often refer to as the High, Late and Post-Medieval periods. The dark ages are much earlier, roughly from the fall of the Roman empire to the start of the Carolingian period. Oh and they were a European period - the Bible is Middle Eastern in origin, and they were having a jolly enlightened time while Europeans were "in the dark."
Still, I'm sure the rest of your historical analysis is right. Let's see ... [b] [QUOTE]Most of the ancient textament was writen 300 BC and the new testament was writen a mere few century after the death of christ. The many parts of the Bible were ASSEMBLED in the middle ages and TRANSLATED from the hebrew and greek to latin and then english[/b][/QUOTE]
300 BC was busy year for someone! The Bible was assembled in the Middle Ages? This must have been awkward for Bishop Ulfilas of the Goths who translated the Old and New Testaments in the 4th century, or Mesrob who completed his Armenian translation in the first decade of the 5th century.

Does anyone read here or do they just skim ?
This started because LudvanB mis-read or mis-understood a comment
that I made that::
The idea of a flat earth arose during the dark ages (or possibly
a medieval era), and that PRIOR to that, during the time the
bible was written, people knew that the earth was NOT FLAT!!!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by Mister Pamboli, posted 02-27-2002 12:00 PM Mister Pamboli has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 29 by LudvanB, posted 02-28-2002 10:00 AM Peter has not replied
 Message 30 by doctrbill, posted 02-28-2002 10:18 AM Peter has replied

  
Peter
Member (Idle past 1478 days)
Posts: 2161
From: Cambridgeshire, UK.
Joined: 02-05-2002


Message 40 of 243 (5878)
03-01-2002 7:09 AM
Reply to: Message 30 by doctrbill
02-28-2002 10:18 AM


quote:
Originally posted by doctrbill:
The idea of a spherical earth was endorsed by Aristotle circa 300 BC. The Flat Earth concept goes back to the earliest writings of the Sumerian sages, circa 2500 BC.

And the spherical earth concept in Ancient Greece dates to about
500 BCE when Pythagoras studied in Persia.
Sophisticated astronomy existed in Mesopotamia by 3000BCE, including
the concept of a celestial sphere. If the sphere was regarded
as THE shape of the heavens ...
It was KNOWN in 500BCE that the earth was a sphere, but that
information did not emerge from a vacuum.
The Ancient Greek philosophers studied widely of what was to
THEM ancient literature.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 30 by doctrbill, posted 02-28-2002 10:18 AM doctrbill has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 42 by doctrbill, posted 03-01-2002 10:44 AM Peter has not replied

  
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