When does design become intelligent? (AS OF 8/2/10 - CLOSING COMMENTS ONLY)

Its real simple, Buz, how did the designer create it then?The above quote better suits a god-like designer and should read:

quote:

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Ah, so suddenly, I mean suddenly, from a god-like designer, the first living organism just popped into existence equipped with it all, including the capability to reproduce itselfy.

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That's spontaneous creation, the kind you support.- Oni

I don't have time right now to get into all the exact percentages of everything but here are just a few elements that make earth inhabitable:
Its a Terrestial Planet. Its in the right position in the Galaxy. Its the right combination of 78% nitrogen, 21% oxygen, 1% carbon Dioxide. Its got a large moon for the perfect gravitational pull.
Its the perfect distance from the sun. (5% closer we would burn up, 20% closer we would freeze)
We are protected by giant planets from incoming dangers. We are orbiting the correct kind of star. The perfect crust to enable plate tectronics. The perfect magnetic field. Oxygen rich atmosphere. Liquid water. Just to name a few. I said 12 but there are actually over 20. The chances of all these elements coming together in one place make it another major miracle just like the long list of other miracles that make our life possible!!! Let me tell you something about priviledge Crash. I have the astounding honor and priviledge of a close and personal relationship with the Creator of the universe. I not only have a very real experience going with him but he has proven his existance over and over and over again since 1983. I don't "think" he is real I absolutely know he is real. I love him and he loves me. He loves you too if you would quit running from him. You talking about humbleness. Try humbling yourself and asking God to reveal himself to you in a tangable way you can grasp. Have you ever tried doing that?
I am sorry if I come across angry. Its kind of like how you would feel if someone (or in this case, lots of someones) insulted a close loved one. The way you guys talk about my Lord does anger me. Its also maddening that you can't see the clear and simple truth thats right in front of your eyes.
And finally, if I turned out to be wrong I would never know cause it would be the end at death. If your wrong Crash, and the bible is right, you will spend all of eternity separated from the God who spent your entire lifetime trying to reach you. Everything myself and others has said will echo in your head as you are stuck with your choices forever....that is truely sad my friend..... Edited by ICDESIGN, : No reason given.Edited by ICDESIGN, : No reason given.

False Dichotomy, you're ignoring option C: you both end up in some other religion's hell/heaven

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It\'s not enough to bash in heads, you\'ve got to bash in minds
soon I discovered that this rock thing was true
Jerry Lee Lewis was the devil
Jesus was an architect previous to his career as a prophet
All of a sudden i found myself in love with the world
And so there was only one thing I could do
Was ding a ding dang my dang along ling long - Jesus Built my Hotrod Ministry
Live every week like it\'s Shark Week! - Tracey Jordan
Just a monkey in a long line of kings. - Matthew Good
If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I\'ll be an elitist! - Get Your War On
*not an actual doctor

I hate to break this news flash to you Crash, but all this EA & GA work they are doing? Guess what? Its all done on computers created by intelligent designers with programs designed by intelligent designers.
I admit its great technology they are developing. Its amazing what intelligent design can create isn't it?Edited by ICDESIGN, : No reason given.

So life adapted to survive in existing conditions.The water just fits the hole in the ground when it forms a puddle, doesn't it?

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Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

There's a billion galaxies, each with billions of stars, each star with the potential to have planets orbiting it. What are the odds that ONE single planet would be just right? Pretty good, eh?So either your creator needed a billion billion billion tries to get it right, which requires the use of magic also. OR, given enough chances, life emerges on a terrestrial planet with the right combination of components - no magic required.Usually its best to go with the theory that doesn't require one to postulate a magician. Why didn't you say so in the first place? Random people on the internet who "absolutely know" things are the most credible of people. This thread is about a designer, its NOT about the particular cultural, mythical god that you happen to, by a sheer coincidental, geographical chance, believe in.Let your ego-centric beliefs go for a second and view it objectively. Why the Bible? Why not the Koran, or any other religious text?What gives you any assurance that you happened to, for as far back as humanity has existed, pick the right god out of the literally thousands that have be postulated?You must be the awesom-est dude ever! What luck that you happen to be born in the 20th century, in America. Man, if you were born in the Middle East who knows which wrong god you'd believe in...or 1000 years ago, that would have been worse! You would have believed in multiple gods and been wrong more than once. Good for you, though. Give yourself a pat on the back.Let me ask, do you think that people who believed in the Greek gods didn't believe as strongly as you do in their gods? Or African tribes-people that believe in their gods? Or Hindus? Or Muslims?Who the fuck do you think you are to preach such arrogant nonsense about invisible entities? Either they're ALL as likely as yours, or NONE is likely at all. Playing favorites just makes you out to be an asshole.If fear convinced you then enjoy it. But don't bring that childish drivel into a science forum, or a thread, that YOU started, that never was specific about a god. It was supposed to be about design.In your words: I am sorry if I come across angry - OniEdited by onifre, : No reason given.

There are four in just our solar system alone. If "1%" carbon dioxide is necessary for life, how does life survive on Earth, where the atmosphere contains only three-onehundredths (.0038%) of that amount?How did life survive on Earth when the Earth had no oxygen at all? Why would obligate anaerobic microbes require "21% oxygen" when any oxygen at all retards their growth, or even kills them?Do you think maybe you don't know what the fuck you're talking about? So, what you're saying is that the Earth isn't at the perfect distance, life could survive in a range of distances equivalent to 25% of the distance of the Earth from the Sun, a distance of 37 million miles."Fine-tuned", indeed. Funny thing - no, you don't. Why did he start in 1983? Yes. Most recently when I was a practicing Christian.When I got no reply at all from "God" I concluded that he didn't exist. Because we don't believe as you do? Maybe you need to stop debating evolution with people who know way more than you, and engage in a little introspection. You need to ask yourself why it's so important that everybody else believes the exact same thing as you. You need to find out why it makes you so angry to be presented with people who believe differently.Those aren't healthy attitudes. They're attitudes of religious bigotry. Or if we're both wrong we'll wind up in Muslim Hell. Frankly making violent threats against me if I don't believe as you do isn't very convincing. Why don't you try reason instead of threats?

So, if the smoke has settled now may I bring us back to the point of this topic. Let me narrow the focus to one simple question that I posed which noone answered.IS A PAPERCLIP AN INTELLIGENT DESIGN?please state the reason for your conclusion.

So what? The algorithm is designed to put that intelligence aside and design from mindlessness. The supposed "designers" go to lunch while these systems run. While it's amazing indeed what intelligence is capable of, to really get a good design you have to set intelligence aside and "design" like an organism - through an iterative process of selection and mutation.

Who cares about paperclips? You never answered my question - how intelligent is it to have rear-facing retinas?

Ringo, you first alleged this; that it's not life until it has all of the characteristics including reproduction.Now you allege that......" Nobody said "suddenly". As I said, many different chemical compounds with some of the characteristics of life would have formed naturally and broken up ("died") naturally over long periods of time. That sort of thing is happening right now.[/qs]We're talking, the first life, Ringo. It had to live long enough to take on nourishment, injest/process the nourishment and to reproduce itself for survival of the organism. It would have had to had multiple complex processes in place rather suddenly.Like the link admits, nobody really knows. It's all conjecture when you boil it down. This doesn't even measure up to ID's logical scientific possibility. Did you read the link? The link doesn't argue for ID. It's on your side. It's honest enough to present problems posed pertaing to prevailing popular peered opinion. ID at least makes some sense, relative to what we observe about things complex.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

Not at all, Onifre. The omni-scient (omni-scientific) and omni-potent super intelligent supreme creator/majestic Biblical designer worked to create. As per the 2nd LoT he needed rest after the work due to loss of energy extended to the creature.

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

You have got to be kidding!That's about the silliest thing I've seen on the net since someone on another thread lectured us on the second law of thermal documents.

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Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.

Hi Jar. Join the need club. We IDists need to know how the first organism allegedly survived long enough to get complex enough to reproduce more life etc. Nobody knows. Nobody can explain it. Did you read the link? If you don't, which statement is wrong? Both are beliefs. Imo, ID is more believable and corroborated by more stuff not relative to this topic. .

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BUZSAW B 4 U 2 C Y BUZ SAW.
The immeasurable present eternally extends the infinite past and infinitely consumes the eternal future.

Yes.Now, you please answer this question for me. Is this antenna intelligently designed? Or this one? I'm sure you would concede that these are more complex than a paperclip. And, given that their purpose is to receive radio signals from millions and millions of miles away, I'd suppose that there's considerably less room for error than there is in a paperclip.So, were they intelligently designed? If you think so, please explain how you can tell.

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Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. Ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them; and no man ever had a distinct idea of the trinity. It is the mere Abracadabra of the mountebanks calling themselves the priests of Jesus. -- Thomas JeffersonFor we know that our patchwork heritage is a strength, not a weakness. We are a nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus -- and non-believers. -- Barack ObamaWe see monsters where science shows us windmills. -- PhatIt has always struck me as odd that fundies devote so much time and effort into trying to find a naturalistic explanation for their mythical flood, while looking for magical explanations for things that actually happened. -- Dr. Adequate