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Author Topic:   The origin of new genes
jar
Member (Idle past 421 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


(1)
Message 29 of 164 (351570)
09-23-2006 10:59 AM
Reply to: Message 23 by Faith
09-23-2006 12:30 AM


I don't know why it is so hard to get this across, but I DO NOT DENY THAT NEW ALLELES ARE FORMED BY MUTATION. I don't know about genes. Genes are specific loci as I understand it, which are occupied by whatever number of alleles are available for that locus in a given population. I'm not aware that actual new genes are said to be created by mutation, merely alleles for that function.
Let's parse that paragraph.
You agree that NEW alleles are formed by mutation.
You agree that genes are made up of alleles.
Therefore a gene that contains new alleles was made through mutation.
Faith, there is NO other possible conclusion based on what you said in that paragraph. If you believe that is incorrect, then you need to present the model.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by Faith, posted 09-23-2006 12:30 AM Faith has not replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 421 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 68 of 164 (353147)
09-29-2006 2:12 PM
Reply to: Message 67 by pesto
09-29-2006 2:02 PM


Re: An ignored post
Well, only some of the beasts were restricted to two. Others could have as many as seven females on the Ark.

Aslan is not a Tame Lion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 67 by pesto, posted 09-29-2006 2:02 PM pesto has not replied

Replies to this message:
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jar
Member (Idle past 421 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


(1)
Message 151 of 164 (569599)
07-22-2010 12:03 PM
Reply to: Message 150 by barbara
07-22-2010 11:25 AM


Re: New Genes
barbara writes:
Does science believe that all informational genes were packaged in the first multi-cellular organism? Evolution meaning that through reshuffling these genes allowed new innovations that were never used in the past?
Of course not and in fact that can be shown to be total nonsense. See the thread Looking for the Super Genome.
barbara writes:
Science states that bacteria obtain new genes but not currently documented in our genes. yet it appears it did happen.
Experiments show that is a fact. It is not just an assertion but rather the conclusion from many, many, many, many, many, many, many, many...many experiments.
barbara writes:
Or was it the first multicelled organism had a very few genes, just enough to allow it to function and then through evolution new genes emerged and added to the gene pool of life. This makes more sense since many species did not start out with specialized compartments for organs.
By the time there were multicell organisms life was well along the evolutionary path. BUT, the number of genes in an organism is not really a good measure of anything except the number of genes in that organism.

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 150 by barbara, posted 07-22-2010 11:25 AM barbara has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 152 by barbara, posted 07-22-2010 1:18 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 421 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


(1)
Message 154 of 164 (569623)
07-22-2010 1:38 PM
Reply to: Message 152 by barbara
07-22-2010 1:18 PM


Re: New Genes
barabara writes:
New information for cells to now make feathers. What is the process for this to be accomplished?
That never happens.
Mutations happen all the time but they are not "to make something". They do not have some intended purpose. The mutations just happen, they are errors.
There is no goal involved.
barbara writes:
How did it get this information in the first place and how did the cells know after trial and error with this new innovation that it can be permanently imbedded in the germ line for reproduction so feathers remain a fixed trait which would allow all of the varieties of species with feathers?
First, as said above, the way it happens is through errors mostly (there are other processes but for now I'll stick to mutations). The cells NEVER know anything. They do not decide what to keep or throw away, they just change.
How things get fixed in a population is the other side of the theory, Natural Selection. Natural selection is simply the world and environment we live in. It too has no purpose, no goals.
BUT...
it does act as a filter. Some critters live long enough to reproduce, others do not. Those that do live long enough to reproduce pass on their genes, including any that were changed.
With me so far?

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 152 by barbara, posted 07-22-2010 1:18 PM barbara has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 155 by barbara, posted 07-22-2010 2:40 PM jar has replied

  
jar
Member (Idle past 421 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


(1)
Message 156 of 164 (569630)
07-22-2010 2:49 PM
Reply to: Message 155 by barbara
07-22-2010 2:40 PM


Re: New Genes
barbara writes:
The extinction of the dinosaurs does not make any sense if you insist on believing that it was just random mutations and natural selection. One would expect to see some features of dinosaurs left in all of the species we have today. Am I suppose to believe that a small rodent that lived at the time of the dinosaurs was able to radiate every warm blooded species across the globe based on random mutations and isolation for natural selection to change their appearances in every environment.
it is not possible for one species to do this.
The changeover from the large mammals to the one currently living today does make sense in random mutations and natural selection to occur. However it does not explain how the large mammals emerged in the first place.
I think evolution is weak when trying to explain the whole picture of how species evolved into the next.
Of course the dinosaurs did not go extinct, they are with us still.
Also, mammals are NOT descended from dinosaurs.
Large mammals evolved and also went extinct in exactly the same way that large dinosaurs evolved and went extinct.
Evolution is simply a fact. That much is a given.
Now the Theory of Evolution is certainly open to question, but so far it is the best, and quite frankly the only, explanation we have.
Why would we expect to see any features of a dinosaur in a mammal?
What we see in mammals today is not from one small rodent that lived at the time of the dinos, but rather from all the various mammal species that lived at that time, just as the birds we see today are not from some one dinosaur but rather from descendants of those dinosaur species that did not go extinct.
Still with me?

Anyone so limited that they can only spell a word one way is severely handicapped!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 155 by barbara, posted 07-22-2010 2:40 PM barbara has not replied

  
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