Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 64 (9164 total)
3 online now:
Newest Member: ChatGPT
Post Volume: Total: 916,748 Year: 4,005/9,624 Month: 876/974 Week: 203/286 Day: 10/109 Hour: 1/2


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Which bible to read??
doctrbill
Member (Idle past 2790 days)
Posts: 1174
From: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Joined: 01-08-2001


Message 16 of 24 (56837)
09-21-2003 10:47 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by hollygolightly
09-18-2003 11:57 AM


RE: The 1611 King James Version
The 1611 King James Version has been out of print for nearly four hundred years. It was revised in 1629, 1638, 1762, and 1769. This was done to keep pace with rapid evolution of the English language. The revision in popular use today is that of 1769.
The most recent attempt to revise the King James, while keeping it "pure" was accomplished in 1982. The FOREWORD of The New Open Bible (New King James Version) Study Edition, by Thomas Nelson, Inc. quotes F. H. A. Scrivener, who observed that the King James Bible,
"... so laborious, so generally accurate, so close, so abhorrent of paraphrase, so grave and weighty in word and rhythm, so intimately bound up with the religious convictions of the English people, will never yield its hard earned supremacy, save to some reverential and well considered revision of which it has been adapted as the basis, that shall be happy enough to retain its characteristic excellence, while amending its venial errors and supplying its unavoidable defect."
I find it particularly telling that he alludes to how the KJV is "bound up with the religious convictions of the English people." Quote one word out of place and you can be branded as a heretic. Note also that this avid King James enthusiast cannot help but, in his honesty, admit to its errors and defect.
Every group of translators offer the same rationale given by those who revised the KJV a mere 18 years after it was first published. Modern translators further point out that more ancient, and more reliable, manuscripts have been discovered.
The original King James Version would be virtually unintelligible today. Even the revision of 1769 contains some renderings which are both humorous and difficult to interpret.
For example:
Try explaining, to a modern audience, this from Job 21:24 ...
His breasts are full of milk, and his bones are moistened with marrow.
Or this, from Job 26:5 ...
Dead things are formed from under the waters, and the inhabitants thereof.
The 1769 revision enjoyed immense popularity with Protestant fundamentalists for nearly two hundred years. I like it a lot myself. But if one truly wants to understand the variety of interpretations possible for any given passage then he, or she, must review more than a few different translations; not just those of one's peculiar denominational bias. Among my personal favorites are: The Revised Standard Version; The Modern Language Bible; The Living Bible; The Jerusalem Bible; The Anchor Bible; and the Good News Bible.
I must caution the unwary, however, ... ALL versions of the Bible are to be approached with caution. Understand that they are produced and peddled, almost exclusively, by organizations with a religious agenda, an often hidden agenda. So,
Read with extreme prejudice, but do READ!
------------------
"I was very unwilling to give up my belief." Charles Darwin

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by hollygolightly, posted 09-18-2003 11:57 AM hollygolightly has not replied

  
Raha
Inactive Member


Message 17 of 24 (56917)
09-22-2003 8:23 AM


Is there something like "ecumenic" english translation?
------------------
Life has no meaning but itself.

Replies to this message:
 Message 18 by doctrbill, posted 09-22-2003 11:10 AM Raha has replied

  
doctrbill
Member (Idle past 2790 days)
Posts: 1174
From: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Joined: 01-08-2001


Message 18 of 24 (56942)
09-22-2003 11:10 AM
Reply to: Message 17 by Raha
09-22-2003 8:23 AM


Ecumenical Bible?
Raha writes:
Is there something like "ecumenic" english translation?
Is this directed to me?
Ecumenism (< Greek OIKOS house) is a movement toward unity among various denominations of Christianity. Both Catholic and Protestant organizations are involved. Not all denominations are in favor of it, of course, because Protestantism is, after all, a protest against Catholicism.
There are Ecumenical Societies scattered across the states. The one in Vermont for example, uses the American Bible Society as a resource for distribution of its subsidized "free" Bibles. It appears that these would be taken from a promotional list which includes:
Good News Translation (GNT);
Contemporary English Version (CEV);
New Living Translation (NLT); and
New International Version (NIV).
I imagine that one could procure any version which his particular denomination preferred, so long as it is still in print and available at a reasonable price to the Vermont, or other, Ecumenical Society.
The Reformed Ecumenical Council which claims a membership of ten million, provides a link to Bible Gateway which, apparently, belongs to them. There, you can view a list of translations which they make available online.
There is no given translation which can satisfy all the people, all the time. Individuals bring individual understanding to any given passage. To me, this is one of the beauties of having many translations available. When studied in conjunction with ancient science, history and culture, one may select those renderings which appear to best suit the requirements of reality.
db

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by Raha, posted 09-22-2003 8:23 AM Raha has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 19 by Raha, posted 09-22-2003 7:19 PM doctrbill has replied

  
Raha
Inactive Member


Message 19 of 24 (57005)
09-22-2003 7:19 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by doctrbill
09-22-2003 11:10 AM


Re: Ecumenical Bible?
doctrbill writes:
Is this directed to me?
No, to everyone - just because I wanted to know. Here, in Czech rep., we have "ecumenic" translations. I use ecumenic translation from 1984. But when I work with English texts, I need English reference and I noticed that there are really big differences between KJV and my Czech ecumenic version. So I wanted to know whether there is something closer to my version.
From your post I understand that the answer to my question is "No", right?
------------------
Life has no meaning but itself.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by doctrbill, posted 09-22-2003 11:10 AM doctrbill has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 20 by doctrbill, posted 09-23-2003 12:22 AM Raha has replied

  
doctrbill
Member (Idle past 2790 days)
Posts: 1174
From: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Joined: 01-08-2001


Message 20 of 24 (57070)
09-23-2003 12:22 AM
Reply to: Message 19 by Raha
09-22-2003 7:19 PM


Re: Ecumenical Bible?
Raha writes:
From your post I understand that the answer to my question is "No", right?
I truly cannot say.
I suppose you would have to examine some of those translations.
Have you checked to see what other versions may be offered by the Bible Societies in your area?
Is there only the one version available to you?
I suspect that any document created for reading in your native tongue will read differently from its English counterpart. I find the Spanish and German versions of the Bible very interesting and helpful to gain a broader and deeper understanding of meaning of the words.
Are there concordances available for use with this ecumenic version? If so, acquire the best one you can get your hands on. Otherwise, you might want to acquire Young's Analytical Concordance to the Bible, and/or Strong's Exhaustive Concordance of the Bible for use with the King James Version. There is a concordance prepared for the Revised Standard Version of the Bible also. Our public library has one. The Revised Standard Version is a better choice for someone for whom English is not a first language. Even English speakers have difficulty understanding the King James.
If you can do so, study the old Hebrew and Greek languages. Theological Seminaries specialize in biblical language studies. Surely there is one somewhere in your country.
Good luck to you.
db

This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by Raha, posted 09-22-2003 7:19 PM Raha has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 21 by Raha, posted 09-23-2003 5:14 AM doctrbill has not replied

  
Raha
Inactive Member


Message 21 of 24 (57129)
09-23-2003 5:14 AM
Reply to: Message 20 by doctrbill
09-23-2003 12:22 AM


Re: Ecumenical Bible?
doctrbill writes:
Is there only the one version available to you?
Of course not. We have many different translations. We have also one from 1594 called Bible Kralicka, which is for us like KJV for English.
As for language differces - of course, they are understandable.
If you can do so, study the old Hebrew and Greek languages.
It would be nice, but not possible right now...
------------------
Life has no meaning but itself.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by doctrbill, posted 09-23-2003 12:22 AM doctrbill has not replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 22 of 24 (57607)
09-24-2003 10:01 PM


I have several translations, but I am convinced the old 1901 American Standard Bible is the most accurate English translation ever. My copies are old ones. It's not a popular Bible and not easy to find but I understand copies are printed as well as availability on line.
There are two major texts from which most Bibles are translated. One is the "Received" text and the other is the Alexandrian text. The Received text is the text used by KJV translators. The Alexandrian text was used by the American Standard and some other later texts such as the NIV which is less literal than the American Standard.
My suggestion for anyone seriously interested in knowing how accurate their Bibles are is to acquire copies of both the Alexandrian and the Received interlinear Bibles which have the Hebrew OT and the Greek NT in them with the nearest English equivalent to the text language under each of the text language words. This way you don't necessarily need to be a Greek or Hebrew scholar in order to know exactly what the ancient texts say. I have both interlinears and find them very useful in study and research on exactly what is being said and how accurate the various translations really are. The 1901 American Standard Bible is one of the rare translations which do not change God's proper name, Jehovah into non-proper generic words which denote lordship or deity. I believe it is very important to keep what was written. Most Bibles have only a scant few references naming the god of the Bible. Thus this confusion about exactly who is god, Allah or Jehovah. Most falsely believe they are one and the same god, but this is just not true. They don't even have the same meaning, the name Allah simply meaning "god" and Jehovah meaning, "the existing one." the word allah, like the Hebrew word elohim are generic words which can mean any god. The word allah at some time in pagan history was elevated to a proper name, being then capitalized as a proper name of deity. It once refered to the moon god, thus the crescent moon symbol as the Muslim official icon or symbol. So had the translators of the various Bibles kept the name of Jehovah as it was written throughout the OT, there would not be this confusion about who the real god of the Bible was/is.
I agree with whoever said the NIV is a poor translation. I heard one of the translators speak as this version was being translated, I believe back in the late sixties or early seventies. He made a statement which greatly disturbed me to the effect that the translators were not as interest in accuracy as they were in depicting the message. Thus, they were were more interested in interpreting text than in translating text. Imo, the interpreting should be left up to the reader

Replies to this message:
 Message 24 by Rei, posted 09-24-2003 10:24 PM Buzsaw has not replied

  
Buzsaw
Inactive Member


Message 23 of 24 (57612)
09-24-2003 10:11 PM


I forgot to explain for those who are'nt aware that the Received text manuscripts are not all as old as some of the Alexriandian texts are. This doesn't necessarily make one more reliable, but generally speaking, the closer the text gets to the original, the more accurate it would tend to be. Then too, various notions of exactly which books were to be considered cannon were debated, but it is the general consensus of scholars that what has emerged so far as texts go is a pretty reliable mix. There are some differences in text of the two major ones, but really not enough to quibble a lot about, imo.

  
Rei
Member (Idle past 7038 days)
Posts: 1546
From: Iowa City, IA
Joined: 09-03-2003


Message 24 of 24 (57619)
09-24-2003 10:24 PM
Reply to: Message 22 by Buzsaw
09-24-2003 10:01 PM


Just a nitpick... God's name isn't Jehovah. It's YHWH (Yod-Hey-Waw-Hey) or YHVH (Yod-Hey-Vav-Hey). Earlier in the bible, God was usually referred to as Elohim. -im actually is plural, but most bibles rub that fact out. Other words used for him are forms of adon (lord) and ba'al (master). However, later these terms became associated only with pagan Gods - those who still worshipped their God as ba'al were seen as horrible infidels. Variants on the Elohim name are almak, eloah, ilah, and eleh. Another name for God is El (does the term "El Shaddai" sound familiar? It means "God Almighty"). It is a more poetic name for God. Shaddai is occasionally used by itself, such as in Job. Elyon is sometimes used with other terms for God. Occasionally other forms also come with Tzevaot ("hosts"), such as YHVH Elohe tsevaot ("YHVH, God of Hosts"). A more exotic name used for God is Ehyeh-Asher-Ehyeh; it is hard to translate, but is often viewed as "I will be because I will be" or "I am that I am".
"Yah" (Yod) is a short form of YHVH; this is where the Rastafarian form, Jah, comes from.
------------------
"Illuminant light,
illuminate me."

This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by Buzsaw, posted 09-24-2003 10:01 PM Buzsaw has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024