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Author Topic:   Parables 101
purpledawn
Member (Idle past 3457 days)
Posts: 4453
From: Indiana
Joined: 04-25-2004


Message 54 of 229 (179064)
01-20-2005 6:57 PM
Reply to: Message 53 by Phat
01-20-2005 12:54 PM


Parable of the Sower
Out of curiosity, why did you stop at verse 9 and equate the seeds with wisdom?
Matthew 13:18
"Listen then to what the parable of the sower means...
The seed is equated with the word, just as it is in Mark and Luke.

A gentle answer turns away wrath, But a harsh word stirs up anger.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 53 by Phat, posted 01-20-2005 12:54 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 55 by Phat, posted 01-21-2005 1:38 AM purpledawn has replied

  
purpledawn
Member (Idle past 3457 days)
Posts: 4453
From: Indiana
Joined: 04-25-2004


Message 56 of 229 (179243)
01-21-2005 7:21 AM
Reply to: Message 55 by Phat
01-21-2005 1:38 AM


Re: Parable of the Sower
The parable deals with the four types of hearers and their response to the message received.
Seed on Path = When anyone hears the message about the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what was sown in his heart.
Seed on Rock = is the man who hears the word and at once receives it with joy. But since he has no root, he lasts only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, he quickly falls away.
Seed among Thorns = is the man who hears the word, but the worries of this life and the deceitfulness of wealth choke it, making it unfruitful.
Seed on Good Soil = is the man who hears the word and understands it. He produces a crop, yielding a hundred, sixty or thirty times what was sown. (Luke) stands for those with a noble and good heart, who hear the word, retain it, and by persevering produce a crop.
What is your teaching on wisdom?

A gentle answer turns away wrath, But a harsh word stirs up anger.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 55 by Phat, posted 01-21-2005 1:38 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 57 by Phat, posted 01-21-2005 11:33 AM purpledawn has replied

  
purpledawn
Member (Idle past 3457 days)
Posts: 4453
From: Indiana
Joined: 04-25-2004


Message 58 of 229 (179321)
01-21-2005 11:41 AM
Reply to: Message 57 by Phat
01-21-2005 11:33 AM


Re: Parable of the Sower
That's your teaching on wisdom?
How does the parable fit into that scenerio?

A gentle answer turns away wrath, But a harsh word stirs up anger.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 57 by Phat, posted 01-21-2005 11:33 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 59 by Phat, posted 01-21-2005 12:39 PM purpledawn has replied

  
purpledawn
Member (Idle past 3457 days)
Posts: 4453
From: Indiana
Joined: 04-25-2004


Message 60 of 229 (179343)
01-21-2005 12:59 PM
Reply to: Message 59 by Phat
01-21-2005 12:39 PM


Re: Parable of the Sower
You said you were going to treat this as a Bible Study.
Jesus was very clear how the parable described the different types of hearing.
I do not understand how your thoughts on wisdom are associated with the parable.
How does the parable help me to visualize your teaching on wisdom?

A gentle answer turns away wrath, But a harsh word stirs up anger.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 59 by Phat, posted 01-21-2005 12:39 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 61 by Phat, posted 01-22-2005 6:32 AM purpledawn has replied

  
purpledawn
Member (Idle past 3457 days)
Posts: 4453
From: Indiana
Joined: 04-25-2004


Message 62 of 229 (179581)
01-22-2005 7:45 AM
Reply to: Message 61 by Phat
01-22-2005 6:32 AM


Re: Parable of the Sower
quote:
It is not forbidden, however, for you or I to voice our interpretations as to the meanings gleaned from the scripture.
I said I do not UNDERSTAND how your toughts on wisdom are associated with the parable.
I don't comprehend how your interpretation can be related to the parable.
You have given me nothing to associate with the parable to enable me to remember your interpretation in the future when I hear the parable.
I'm asking for clarification.
I don't get what you are teaching about wisdom in relation to the parable.
I don't understand your point concerning wisdom and the parable.
When the disciples asked Jesus what he meant by a parable he explained it.
Please explain.
Have I said I don't get it?

A gentle answer turns away wrath, But a harsh word stirs up anger.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 61 by Phat, posted 01-22-2005 6:32 AM Phat has not replied

  
purpledawn
Member (Idle past 3457 days)
Posts: 4453
From: Indiana
Joined: 04-25-2004


Message 149 of 229 (570664)
07-28-2010 8:21 AM
Reply to: Message 148 by pelican
07-28-2010 1:55 AM


The Parable of the Talents
In a parable the various details of the story do not stand for something else. Tyndale Bible Dictionary
quote:
I think the servant was right about his master's character, in being afraid of his master. He was proved right by his masters' actions.
But the servant still didn't do the most with his one talent given his view of his master's character. That's why the master said:
You wicked lazy servant! So you knew that I harvest where I have not sown and gather where I have not scattered seed? Well then, you should have put my money on deposit with the bankers, so that when I returned I would have received it back with interest.
The point of the story is that we will be rewarded for faithful stewardship of the gifts given us. Jar said it in Message 127:..that each of us must do the best we can with what we are given...
quote:
This isn't equality under god in any shape or form.
This parable isn't about equality. It's about reward.

Scripture is like Newton’s third law of motionfor every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.
In other words, for every biblical directive that exists, there is another scriptural mandate challenging it.
-- Carlene Cross in The Bible and Newton’s Third Law of Motion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 148 by pelican, posted 07-28-2010 1:55 AM pelican has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 151 by pelican, posted 07-28-2010 9:43 AM purpledawn has replied

  
purpledawn
Member (Idle past 3457 days)
Posts: 4453
From: Indiana
Joined: 04-25-2004


Message 159 of 229 (570717)
07-28-2010 12:58 PM
Reply to: Message 151 by pelican
07-28-2010 9:43 AM


Re: The Parable of the Talents
quote:
Do you agree with the master's actions of taking what does not belong to him?
Whether the master's actions were right or wrong is irrelevant to the lesson of the story.
quote:
It contains punishment and reward but did jesus mean to teach us how to get rewards or be punished? It doesn't sound like Jesus to me.
Doesn't sound like Jesus of the NT or Jesus as presented today?
Jesus of the NT teaches of reward and punishment as jar showed in Message 153.
Squander the gifts you're given and you will lose them and suffer.

Scripture is like Newton’s third law of motionfor every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.
In other words, for every biblical directive that exists, there is another scriptural mandate challenging it.
-- Carlene Cross in The Bible and Newton’s Third Law of Motion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 151 by pelican, posted 07-28-2010 9:43 AM pelican has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 166 by pelican, posted 07-28-2010 9:40 PM purpledawn has replied

  
purpledawn
Member (Idle past 3457 days)
Posts: 4453
From: Indiana
Joined: 04-25-2004


Message 160 of 229 (570721)
07-28-2010 1:16 PM
Reply to: Message 137 by pelican
07-27-2010 9:05 PM


Parable of the Fair Employer
quote:
This is good stuff. The parable worked insofar as it evoked an expression of self. The parable makes no mention of repentance and doesn't Jesus warn that we cannot know when the 'eleventh hour' will come?
It didn't speak of repentance but it did speak of service.
The kingdom of heaven is like.... A positive phrasing would be that no matter how long one serves "God" they are equal before God. No extra points for serving longer.

Scripture is like Newton’s third law of motionfor every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.
In other words, for every biblical directive that exists, there is another scriptural mandate challenging it.
-- Carlene Cross in The Bible and Newton’s Third Law of Motion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 137 by pelican, posted 07-27-2010 9:05 PM pelican has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 169 by pelican, posted 07-28-2010 10:07 PM purpledawn has replied

  
purpledawn
Member (Idle past 3457 days)
Posts: 4453
From: Indiana
Joined: 04-25-2004


Message 175 of 229 (570841)
07-29-2010 5:56 AM
Reply to: Message 169 by pelican
07-28-2010 10:07 PM


Re: Parable of the Fair Employer
quote:
Yes I can see that but isn't it the quality of service that is judged? In the parable of talents who is best serving god?
Not in this parable. The parable deals with length of service, not quality.
Where do you pull quality of service from?

Scripture is like Newton’s third law of motionfor every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.
In other words, for every biblical directive that exists, there is another scriptural mandate challenging it.
-- Carlene Cross in The Bible and Newton’s Third Law of Motion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 169 by pelican, posted 07-28-2010 10:07 PM pelican has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 177 by pelican, posted 07-29-2010 6:38 AM purpledawn has replied

  
purpledawn
Member (Idle past 3457 days)
Posts: 4453
From: Indiana
Joined: 04-25-2004


Message 176 of 229 (570842)
07-29-2010 6:26 AM
Reply to: Message 166 by pelican
07-28-2010 9:40 PM


Re: The Parable of the Talents
quote:
In the parable, the master judges, punishes and rewards. In the following paragraph "Judgement", it is god who punishes and rewards but for completely different reasons.
Is the master morally responsible and is this what god judges us on?
A parable makes one moral or religious point. The point of the Parable of the Talents deals with not squandering the gifts God has given you. What the master in the story will be held accountable for by God is not part of the parable. It isn't the point.
The discourse by Jesus starting with verse 31 is not a parable. Jesus is telling them what will happen. Clearly the sheep used their gifts wisely and helped others and the goats didn't.

Scripture is like Newton’s third law of motionfor every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.
In other words, for every biblical directive that exists, there is another scriptural mandate challenging it.
-- Carlene Cross in The Bible and Newton’s Third Law of Motion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 166 by pelican, posted 07-28-2010 9:40 PM pelican has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 178 by pelican, posted 07-29-2010 7:05 AM purpledawn has replied

  
purpledawn
Member (Idle past 3457 days)
Posts: 4453
From: Indiana
Joined: 04-25-2004


Message 179 of 229 (570851)
07-29-2010 7:31 AM
Reply to: Message 177 by pelican
07-29-2010 6:38 AM


Re: Parable of the Fair Employer
quote:
I think we are still on the talents parable and in this it doesn't have reward for length of service, but the quality of service by the return on the talents. Doubling the masters money was quality service for the master but returning the investment without profit was not quality service for the master.
Keep your parables straight. The Parable of the Fair Employer is not the same as the Parable of the Talents.
The Fair Employer hires people at different times during the day, but pays them the same at the end.
The Talents is about a master who leaves and gives his servants money to manage while he is gone.
Don't mix your parables.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 177 by pelican, posted 07-29-2010 6:38 AM pelican has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 181 by pelican, posted 07-29-2010 8:59 AM purpledawn has replied

  
purpledawn
Member (Idle past 3457 days)
Posts: 4453
From: Indiana
Joined: 04-25-2004


Message 180 of 229 (570853)
07-29-2010 7:54 AM
Reply to: Message 178 by pelican
07-29-2010 7:05 AM


Re: The Parable of the Talents
quote:
If it is about not squandering the gifts god has given you, does it apply to everyone?
The parable doesn't give us that answer. Jesus was talking to Jews.
quote:
Someone said it was but I don't think it's relevant. I don't think the judgement mentions anything about using gifts wisely and neither does the parable of the talents. One shows us how we behave and the other shows us the consequences of our behaviour.
It is relevant whether it is a parable or not since this thread is about parables.
The kingdom of heaven is like..which means the parable is a visual aid. To understand one has to have some knowledge of the Jewish beliefs of the time so that one gets the same visual, which is difficult today. Everything comes from God. If one does nothing good with what they are given, it will be taken away and they will suffer.
That is what Jesus is saying with the sheep and the goats. The goats didn't use their resources (whether large or small) to help others in need.
quote:
It's up to us to decide before we die to judge our own behaviour or else. Hell and damnation!
Not what either of the parables I've addressed are telling you.
Parable of the Talents: Use the resources (big or small) God gave you to serve God. Usually serving God means helping others in need.
Parable of the Fair Employer: No matter how long we have served God we will be equal before God.
So if you are a goat and haven't used your resources (big or small) wisely by helping others in need, then you haven't been serving God so length of service is irrelevant.
If you are a sheep and have been using your resources (big or small) wisely, then the length of time you have been serving doesn't gain you any more points with God. The sheep are equal before God.
The discourse on the sheep and goats refers to Gentiles. When the word nation is used by itself it usually isn't including the nation of Israel.
As for the parables, Jesus is teaching Jews not Gentiles.

Scripture is like Newton’s third law of motionfor every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.
In other words, for every biblical directive that exists, there is another scriptural mandate challenging it.
-- Carlene Cross in The Bible and Newton’s Third Law of Motion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 178 by pelican, posted 07-29-2010 7:05 AM pelican has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 182 by pelican, posted 07-29-2010 9:33 AM purpledawn has replied

  
purpledawn
Member (Idle past 3457 days)
Posts: 4453
From: Indiana
Joined: 04-25-2004


Message 183 of 229 (570882)
07-29-2010 10:13 AM
Reply to: Message 181 by pelican
07-29-2010 8:59 AM


Re: Parable of the Fair Employer
quote:
I realise that. I might ask you then where you get the length of service from? It isn't in the parable of talents.
The fair employer parable is the only one mentioning pay and time and I haven't mentioned this one at all.
This is why subtitles are good, especially in a thread like this where several parables are being discussed.
Message 128 is where you started discussing the Parable of the Fair Employer. I came into that discussion at Message 160.
PurpleDawn writes:
It didn't speak of repentance but it did speak of service.
The kingdom of heaven is like.... A positive phrasing would be that no matter how long one serves "God" they are equal before God. No extra points for serving longer.
Just like the fair employer, no matter how long one worked for him that day they were paid the same.
So in the kingdom of heaven, no matter how long one serves God, they are equal before God. No extra points for longer service.

Scripture is like Newton’s third law of motionfor every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.
In other words, for every biblical directive that exists, there is another scriptural mandate challenging it.
-- Carlene Cross in The Bible and Newton’s Third Law of Motion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 181 by pelican, posted 07-29-2010 8:59 AM pelican has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 185 by pelican, posted 07-29-2010 10:45 AM purpledawn has not replied

  
purpledawn
Member (Idle past 3457 days)
Posts: 4453
From: Indiana
Joined: 04-25-2004


Message 184 of 229 (570887)
07-29-2010 10:28 AM
Reply to: Message 182 by pelican
07-29-2010 9:33 AM


Re: The Parable of the Talents
quote:
So was the lesson just for Jews and not a master or mankind in general?
Jesus was talking to a Jewish audience. The lesson was for his audience. That doesn't mean others can't learn from the parable.
Do the most with what you have and help others when you can.
quote:
It is irrelevant to the argument whether it's called a parable or a xmas carol. They are the words of Jesus.
This isn't a general discussion about the words of Jesus. This thread is about parables. So it does make a difference.
quote:
The master in the parable of talents did nothing to help the servant with one talent. He actually put the servant in a position of need. I would imagine the master had a large amount of resources. Why point the finger at the lowly servant and not at the harsh master?
Not the point of the parable.
quote:
I am beginning to understand that there is prior knowledge and strongly held beliefs that assume and add a lot more than I can perceive.
The parable were for first century Jews. So Jesus told a story they would understand. It wasn't written for us to understand.
quote:
For me it has nothing to do with my beliefs. For me it is about the written language and comprehending what is written as it is written. The only background I have is that Jesus was a defender of the under-dog every time.
Then you will likely get your own moral or lesson from the story, which may or may not be what Jesus was teaching his audience. So either you want to learn about the culture to understand what was being taught or you don't care and will just make up your own lesson.

Scripture is like Newton’s third law of motionfor every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.
In other words, for every biblical directive that exists, there is another scriptural mandate challenging it.
-- Carlene Cross in The Bible and Newton’s Third Law of Motion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 182 by pelican, posted 07-29-2010 9:33 AM pelican has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 186 by pelican, posted 07-29-2010 10:57 AM purpledawn has replied

  
purpledawn
Member (Idle past 3457 days)
Posts: 4453
From: Indiana
Joined: 04-25-2004


Message 188 of 229 (571046)
07-29-2010 7:20 PM
Reply to: Message 186 by pelican
07-29-2010 10:57 AM


Re: The Parable of the Talents
quote:
Aren't they the same thing?
No. Everything that Jesus supposedly said was not a parable.
quote:
How do you know? Aren't you just using parts of the parables and discarding what doesn't fit into your expanation?
I read and try to understand what the original audience understood.
No.

Scripture is like Newton’s third law of motionfor every action there is an equal and opposite reaction.
In other words, for every biblical directive that exists, there is another scriptural mandate challenging it.
-- Carlene Cross in The Bible and Newton’s Third Law of Motion

This message is a reply to:
 Message 186 by pelican, posted 07-29-2010 10:57 AM pelican has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 190 by pelican, posted 07-30-2010 9:00 PM purpledawn has replied

  
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