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Author Topic:   Identifying false religions.
Modulous
Member
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


(1)
Message 109 of 479 (566553)
06-25-2010 9:40 AM
Reply to: Message 107 by RAZD
06-25-2010 8:04 AM


It is untrue that beliefs that have not been shown to be false are not true
We can go on and on, and you will continue to choose to misunderstand, because you have your opinions that you think are true, even though your "test" for reasonable arguments invalidates itself.
The strange thing is that the two of you are agreeing vociferously past each other.
You both agree that a logical argument can be invalid and true or valid and false.
The question seems to be regarding the nature of 'valid' in the context of belief.
Phage seems to be saying that 'that an idea has not been falsified is not a valid reason to believe that the idea is true'.
You seem to be saying 'that an idea has not been falsified means the belief is valid'.
Could you explain what you mean by 'valid belief'? Unless you were making the trivial point that 'a belief that is not falsified is not falsified' - I can't make sense out of it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 107 by RAZD, posted 06-25-2010 8:04 AM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 114 by RAZD, posted 06-25-2010 8:51 PM Modulous has replied

Modulous
Member
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


(2)
Message 115 of 479 (566692)
06-25-2010 10:24 PM
Reply to: Message 114 by RAZD
06-25-2010 8:51 PM


Re: Rule out falsified beliefs first
Could you explain what you mean by 'valid belief'?
Interestingly, this thread is not about identifying true religions, but false ones.
Therefore the emphasis should be on what are invalid beliefs, and how they affect religions that incorporate them in various degrees.
I understand what the topic is, but I though would have more to contribute than 'we can identify false religions by finding religions which rely on empirically falsified notions' - but it seems not. But you suggest that where there is support for or against the notion, then either believing it or not are both rational? What do you mean by 'rational' here? Merely 'not falsified'?
Now, do you agree that any religion that depends on one or more false beliefs, beliefs that have been invalidated by contradictory evidence, is suspect at best, or false itself at worse (to the degree it is based on false beliefs)?
Well, yes, trivially.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 114 by RAZD, posted 06-25-2010 8:51 PM RAZD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 117 by RAZD, posted 06-27-2010 9:53 PM Modulous has replied

Modulous
Member
Posts: 7801
From: Manchester, UK
Joined: 05-01-2005


Message 411 of 479 (571089)
07-30-2010 9:53 AM
Reply to: Message 117 by RAZD
06-27-2010 9:53 PM


suspect deity
Where there is no evidence for, nor against, a notion, then we don't know, we can't know, we don't have enough information to know.
In order for you to be able to say that your claim "Where there is no evidence for...a notion..we don't have enough information to know" is something you can say you 'know', you'll need to provide evidence - by your own epistemological standards.
This would bring us to a second test for false religions: inherent logical contradictions, and logical fallacies within a specific belief should also render that specific belief suspect at best, or false at worse, and likewise any religion that depends on one or more logically invalid beliefs, beliefs that have been invalidated by self contradiction or that are logical fallacies, is suspect at best, or false itself at worse (to the degree it is based on false beliefs).
So a religion that has a deity that doesn't get involved in the universe, does not provide any revelations yet is still the cause of some religious experiences would count as 'suspect at best'?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 117 by RAZD, posted 06-27-2010 9:53 PM RAZD has seen this message but not replied

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